What is Your Definition of a Kosher Establishment?
 

And kosher food beyond Chabad houses

:eek: Blasphemy! ;):D

Depending on how you feel that day....:p
Personally, I'd feel more comfortable in that part of the world eating under the hashgacha of some serious talmidei-chachamim who are actually local and 'on site'.

Three answers for that:
1. How do you measure who is a "serious talmid chacham"? By the length of the beard? What do you know about the young Chabad's shluchim there? What do you know about Zvika?
2. At your home country do you pick a restaurant by the length of the mashgiach's beard or by the quality of the food?
3. It is a common requirement in the kosher world that the owner of a place cannot be its mashgiach, but this is the case in Chabad houses. Does it show better kashruth or compromised kashruth?

And one more, in Zvika's place the hashgacha is done by combination of an on-site mashgiach and 6 cameras watching every corner and recording every move of the staff. In chabad there are many hours that there is no Jewish person in the kitchen and the staff are left unwatched. Do you still feel more comfortable there?

The Rebbe is watching

Maybe he is cooking too

To clarify a few points....
 

I have no interest in debating Zvika (or anybody else), and will respond to this only to clarify a few points for those who's standard is the Shulchan Aruch, and not merely a subjective comfort zone.

1. I've never been in the beard measuring business, so am unable to address that irrelevancy. However, a 'talmid chacham' is judged by his proficiency and expertise in Torah, and particularly for a Rabbi, his fluency in halakha, including the SA, and major rabbinic literature. Rabbis Kantor and Wilhelm are both extremely learned and expert halakhists. I know this because in the course of several years visiting Bangkok, I've had occasion to discuss and debate halakhic issues with them extensively, and have been amazed at the scope and depth of their knowledge. Rabbi Kantor is a serious posek, and as such, I comfortably rely on his hashgacha. Which brings us to a certain other issue, now that you mention it...

2. I pick restaurants first by the quality of the hechsher, and then by the quality of the food. The problems that might arise with self-proclaimed 'kosher' restaurants that (only) later arrange coverage with a largely unknown, foreign 'supervising agency' are obvious. The general halakhic standard is that one who has challenges abiding by parts of Yoreh Deah, (say for example, ch.268-269), might be considered suspect regarding other parts of Yoreh Deah (see siman 119), enough said.

3. From a halakhic perspective, an organization like Chabad in BKK that operates restaurants as a service and not as profit centers, cannot be compared to a regular 'for profit' business, and therefore retain their halakhic credibility ('neemanus'). So yes, their kashrut is better.

The Chabad restaurants in Thailand lose money every month, and are subsidized as a community service. You claim to be as 'kosher' as they are - maybe, and maybe not. But please don't distort the facts with innuendo and attempt to mislead people with half-a-story... I know the score in Thailand.

since you seem to be a very sincere person, I have but 1 question Do you have any afflication to Chabad in general?

and I found that alot of the Chabad Houses that have meals or restaurants do do it as a Profitable biz and usually rely on thta income in order to remain afloat!

I definitely have a strong affinity for Chabad, and appreciate their self-sacrifice I see in so many countries. That said, I am by no means an expert in how most of their restaurants are run - I commented on the BKK situation because I have thorough firsthand knowledge of the situation there.
Pardon my skepticism, but your claim is very hard to believe. You're telling me that "you've found" Chabad houses that fund their operation by running a restaurant ?!
That's really hard to believe. Of course they charge for the food - you want them to give it to you for free ? That doesn't quite add up to running a business, so unless you have specific examples......:confused:

Your message is nothing to the point. As such you are falling, and much deeper, in the category that you mentioned "one who has challenges abiding etc.". I'm sorry you take this decent thread to those regions.

Just to clarify the point itself - I am the owner of the restaurant (and BTW the one who looses lot of money on it while Chabad is thriving) but I am neither the one who gave the hechsher nor the mashgiach. The rabbi who gave me the hechsher is no way "unknown, foreign 'supervising agency'". He is a member of the Rabanut in Israel, the head rabbi of an Israeli town, whose kashrut authoritiy is highly esteemed across the Negev area in Israel. He is also the one nominating the mashgichim in place. You have business not with me but with him (and with the KBH).

so are you saying you yourself are not Chabad but just happen to like them for whatever reason, or are you trying to hide the fact that you are a Chabadnik?

after all if you are a Chabadnik then you arent Objective and should have said so from get go!

I have eaten by different Chabads for Shabbos meals each time I was told we dont charge but a donation would be appreciated. Upon asking more then 1 place why dont they simply charge a set amount and say if you cant afford it no problem.I always got the same answer, its been proven if you leave it up to the person to so called donate they will end up giving alot more then what they would charge.

Now lets take BKK where I havent yet been Thailand that is. Why is it that I doubt thats theres any Jewish community persee there, Im sure alot of Jews pass thru but not many live there. So how then will that Chabad raise funds they cant like they do in the US by engaging and getting non-religious Jews living in the area to contribute. Answer they rely on making $$ via providing kosher food, to me that means they are running a business! I assume when Tzvika opened up they probably did everything they could to close him up, why $$$ are at stake

why is it that in most places in Italy that there are fights with the locals simple cause Chabad came along and wanted to run everything how they saw fit and the local Jewish populations didnt agree. they wanted to be the sole Shabbos meals providers to boot. thats why they will tell you we are the only mkosher place in town

Florence doesnt have any Chabad living there except for Shabbos and Yom Tovim, they live an hour North in Bolonga but tourists have no reason to go to Bolonga so no $$$ can be made. So hello Florence and hopefully with the #s they get it will provide the $$$ to run their Bolonga operation

another example is Kowloon , Hong Kong where once again nthere are no Jews living and where KZ (Kehilath Zion) was providing Shabbos meals for many years, till Chabad thought lets get a cut of the action. On HKI (Hong Kong Island) they used to do Shabbos in nthe Mandian Oriental and raked it in, was never at that place but it was mainly catering to the Biz people and not backbackers. Now they are located in the Mid-Level area where there is a Jewish Community, I dont know who they get for Shabbos meals as its a bit out of the way and is residental area. I have no problem with the HKI Chabad and if anything its the local community who came up with a truck load of $$ so that the Rabbi could buy an apt. So on HKI its Chabad doing its thing working with the local community as as far as I know there isnt any fights with the locals, if anything the opposite.Its also a very weathy community unlike those in Italy and else where

So as you can see not every Chabad outpost is as good as HKI, and w/o a wealthy local Jewish community how else is the center gonna get $$$ to pay for things, answer: anyway they can = making money running restaurants and Shabbos meals/food = they are running a business

I am confused about the point you are trying to make.
Chabad of Kowloong in HKG is NOT loaded with money, and they heavily rely on donations.

Do the donations contribute more than if they would just charge people?
Maybe. Yes, I could ask myself why is there a chabad house in Hart Avenue in Kowloon, if within a 8 minute walk at the waterfront of TST there is a sephardi shul right next to the Mandarin Oriental.
That sephardi shul gets a lot of donations (nothing wrong with it of course).

The chabad house is more of a run down place.
So IMHO, I don't think that chabad of Kowloon is simply a business.

since when is there a MO in Kowloon? and Chabad Kowloon is new so of cause they arent loaded and from what I understand Politics have taken ahold and the person who ran it is no longer there or in HKG, reason I dont know

I was told when I was @ KZ that R' Ovadia Yosef put that Chabad in Kowloon in Hariem since they didnt live there all week and opened up within a couple of mins walk from KZ in order to grab some of KZs biz people

Now I try to be fair and having been to both Chabad and KZ I can say that they each attract a completely different crowd. KZ pulls in mainly Jewish religious biz people who wanted a place for Shabbos and theres a number of Israeli bochers learning there all week long, KZ also runs a restaurant for lunch and supper and offers a free parve breakfast to those who daven there in the morning. the Rabbis also travels into Mainland China on a reg basis as he checks out factories producing food that finds its way to israel and all over. He lives in Kowloon and his kids go to HKI to school.

The Chabad person lives on HKI and comes over just for Shabbos and YT. At least a few yrs ago when there last I was told there isnt a even a minyon of Jews lving in Kowloon. So since Chabad generally attracts the non-religious Israeli tourist passing thru the only way to keep the place afloat would be to go after the Biz people who will be staying in Kowloon , which till then mainly went to KZ

I have no idea if those Israelis went to KZ before Chabad opened up and even if the did it would have been a reg Shabbos atmosphere rather then what it was at Chabad

My pt is when Chabad opens up in an area where there is a Jewish presence already, they can be supported by making friends within that established communitys financially successful biz people, which is usually the case here in the US and in the vast cases there isnt any friction with what has been in place till then.

This isnt the case outside the US,Canada, Australia (and most likely some other Countrys) in those other places either there no real Jews living there so its the Biz people heading over that they hope will support them. Israelis still travel to Tawian but there isnt any local Jews to speak about and for yrs the biz people had no need any longer to go there = no longer a Center on Tawian yet the Israeli backpackers still go why isnt there a Chabad pressence still? simple if theres no way to make $$$ then like any Biz close the branch down, just as Starbucks did the other year closing hunderds of locations that either werent profitable enough or were losing $$

so for Venice and Florence the locals didnt take to Chabad so it relys on raising its money via Tourists, since not many biz people hit these places = how best to raise as much as we can while still doing our thing.

to me if it walks like a duck, quakes like a duck, looks like a duck its a Duck. = Chabad in many palces are running businesses and must do so at a profit if it will remain an on going concern, and all too often have found they can take in alot more by Donations then by charging a set price

if enough people dont come thru with large donations you bet the place will close up, or if they think if they charged set prices theyd be able to still operate then they would go that route 1st. The idea is simple , How to pull in as much $$$ as possible

How to pull in as much $$$ as possible? Simple. Use kashruth as an axe to dig with and talk loshon horo on competitors