Oneworld rebuffs Swiss

 
Old Nov 23, 02, 8:27 am
  #1  
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Oneworld rebuffs Swiss

"Oneworld has apparently said that we could not join in the short term but the link with American is going ahead, we have bilateral agreements with the other members and we are convinced that we will be admitted one day," he added."

Now that Swiss has been rebuffed by the Oneworld alliance I wonder if they will look to hook up with Air France or Lufthansa, instead.
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Old Nov 23, 02, 8:53 am
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Ahem... can you please provide some more information and possibly a link regarding this quote? Merci.

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Old Nov 23, 02, 5:04 pm
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Actually I read this too in the Times (London). It was from the 1World Rio summit and it basically announced that not only was Swiss not getting in but they also said that 1world wants no new members at the moment.
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Old Nov 23, 02, 5:17 pm
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Perhaps SWISS could join www.globalpass.com

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Old Nov 23, 02, 5:21 pm
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Hello,

***quote***

MADRID, Nov 22 (Reuters) - The international airline alliance
Oneworld has switched its priority to deepening ties among the eight
existing members instead of recruiting new ones, officials said after
a meeting in Madrid on Friday.

That will come as a blow to struggling Swiss International Air Lines,
which pins at least some of its hopes of survival on joining the
alliance formed by British Airways Plc, American Airlines and six
others

***(unquote)***

Jeremioah
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/swissair
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Old Nov 23, 02, 5:24 pm
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the link to article in The Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFr...489339,00.html

November 23, 2002

Oneworld airlines strengthen links to cut £5bn bill
From Russell Hotten in Madrid



ONEWORLD, the alliance of eight airlines including British Airways, American Airlines and Iberia, of Spain, unveiled plans yesterday to co-operate on maintenance and engineering operations in an attempt to cut their £5 billion bill for servicing and spare parts.
The move marks a further step towards integration of operations in preparation for a possible easing of rules governing the mergers of airlines by the European Commission.

Oneworld also gave a clear indication that other airlines were unlikely to become full members of the alliance for the foreseeable future.

Peter Buecking, managing partner of oneworld, said: “Adding new members can actually reduce the value existing members enjoy.”

This will be seen as a triumph for British Airways, which has been fighting hard to keep Swiss out of oneworld unless Switzerland’s loss-making flag carrier cuts some routes that clash with the UK airlines network.

Oneworld’s co-operation on maintenance and engineering marks the first time that all members of an aviation alliance have focused jointly on cutting costs in this area.

Alliances have traditionally concentrated on code-sharing, marketing, and sharing airport lounges.

Oneworld members, which include Cathay Pacific, Qantas, LanChile, Finnair and Aer Lingus, would start providing each other with equipment such as spare engines and landing gear.

Mr Buecking said: “Together we have 1,900 aircraft. A saving of just 1 per cent on our £5 billion maintenance and engineering costs will be a valuable saving.”

Governments severely restrict mergers and investment by foreign airlines in their national carriers. However, with the European Commission assuming a greater role in aviation regulation, the industry is hopeful that mergers between flag carriers will eventually be permitted.

Two weeks ago Rod Eddington, chief executive of BA, told The Times that he wanted to merge with Iberia if regulations allowed. Yesterday Xabier de Irala, chairman and chief executive of Iberia, said BA was his partner of choice when merger rules were eased.

He said: “There would be clear benefits for both airlines. Alliances are a preparation for consolidation and we will eventually have to tackle the question of integrating our functions and processes.

“I think that will come quicker than most people think.”

Oneworld, whose chief executives were meeting in Madrid yesterday, now seems focused on deepening the alliance rather than broadening it by bringing in members.

Mr Buecking told a press conference: “Deepening is the key word. It means more opportunities to increase revenues and improve efficiencies. In the current climate nothing is more important. Adding more members can reduce the benefits.”

Oneworld hopes that these latest developments will put pressure on the rival Star Alliance, whose key carriers include Lufthansa, of Germany, and United Airlines, the struggling US carrier.

Star members are working on a rescue plan to provide loans and benefits in kind to United. Mr Buecking said oneworld did not have any problem with the rescue and would not be raising any complaints with regulators.

However, oneworld airlines, which are viewed as more financially solid than Star members, clearly relish seeing their rivals in some disarray. “I can’t see where they are going to get all their money from (to help United),” a oneworld member said yesterday.











[This message has been edited by beepee (edited 11-23-2002).]

[This message has been edited by beepee (edited 11-23-2002).]
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Old Nov 24, 02, 11:42 am
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Thanks for the full story. Hopefully this latest development will help to put pressure on SWISS to downsize their fleet to a point where it actually can survive without fresh tax money...

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Old Nov 25, 02, 11:07 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by davistev:
Perhaps SWISS could join www.globalpass.com

</font>
and a chance to burn up the rest of my LP miles http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by cesco.g (edited 11-25-2002).]
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Old Nov 25, 02, 5:26 pm
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I am really sorry for asking, but what is GlobalPass? I did some research on the internet, but couldn't find anything about it...
Seems very secretive... Google suggests 'globalbass' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by atlantic (edited 11-25-2002).]
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Old Nov 25, 02, 6:01 pm
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Here is the article from Reuters. Personally I think it is a pity.

Airline Swiss gets US okay after oneworld rebuff

By Marcel Michelson

ZURICH, Nov 23 (Reuters) - Swiss International Air Lines, &lt;CROZn.S&gt;, successor to failed Swissair, said on Saturday it had won key U.S. approval towards joining the oneworld alliance -- just a day after it got the cold shoulder from the group's eight member airlines.

Swiss said in a statement that the U.S. Department of Transportation had given so-called anti-trust immunity for closer cooperation between Swiss and oneworld founding member American Airlines &lt;AMR.N&gt;, the world's biggest carrier.

Swiss called the step "commercially very important" and said it would give the airline an indirect link to the oneworld alliance. Swiss is Europe's number eight airline in sales terms but has the fourth largest fleet.

Oneworld, however, said on Friday after a meeting in Madrid that it would focus on closer cooperation between partners before opening the door to prospective members such as Swiss.

"This is good news that comes on the back of bad news," said Swiss spokesman Jean-Claude Donzel said about the approval.

"Oneworld has apparently said that we could not join in the short term but the link with American is going ahead, we have bilateral agreements with the other members and we are convinced that we will be admitted one day," he added.

Swiss and American have been working together since April when the former regional carrier started flying intercontinental routes with two-thirds of the fleet of Swissair and 2.7 billion Swiss francs ($1.83 billion) in public and private money.

With the anti-trust immunity, the two airlines can coordinate ticket prices, flight schedules and marketing.

Flights over the north Atlantic, in the U.S. and in Europe make up half of total world traffic.

The Swiss spokesman could not give financial details and declined to say whether this would be a boost to the airline's goal of reaching break-even in 2003 and a small profit in 2004.

"We had pencilled in the benefits of an alliance as an option and now we can fully take account of that and the earlier we implement it the bigger the benefit," Donzel told Reuters.

MEMBERS FIRST

After a meeting of the alliance members in Madrid on Friday, oneworld's managing partner Peter Buecking said Swiss would have to cool its heels in the waiting area for some time to come.

"Oneworld can bring significant benefits all round by deepening the alliance...not simply widening it," Buecking told a news conference. "Adding new members can actually reduce the value existing members enjoy," he added.

Asked if that meant the alliance would not accept any new members, Buecking said: "In the short-term that is correct."

Founded by American and British Airways Plc &lt;BAY.L&gt;, oneworld includes Cathay Pacfic &lt;0293.HK&gt;, Iberia &lt;ILBA.MC&gt;, Qantas &lt;QAN.AX&gt;, Aer Lingus 1/8AERL.US 3/8, LanChile&lt;LAN.SN&gt; and Finnair &lt;FIA1S.HE&gt;.

Membership of one of the three global alliances is important for airlines to offer smooth connecting services and a range of other advantages to passengers. Oneworld competes with Sky Team, led by Air France &lt;AIRF.PA&gt; and Delta &lt;DAL.N&gt;, and the Star Alliance of Lufthansa &lt;LHAG.F&gt;, United &lt;UAL.N&gt; and others.

Swiss on Tuesday pruned its fleet and took out eight planes while cutting 300 jobs from total staff of 10,000 in a move to boost earnings by 400 million Swiss francs on the road to break-even in 2003.

It said its loss for the third quarter of 2002 was 135 million francs and its nine month loss stood at 582 million.

The budget foresaw a loss of 1.1 billion for the first year of intercontinental flights by former regional carrier Crossair.
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Old Nov 26, 02, 3:46 am
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Swiss is pathetic, they are like the ugliest girl at the ball that will "put out" in order to get a dance. I bet they feel "really smart" that their predecessor told Skyteam to bugger off!!!
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Old Nov 26, 02, 6:40 am
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For what it's worth; the First Class Lounge keeper in Zurich said that Delta told Swissair to take a hike. Not the other way around.

Have no idea what the truth might be.
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Old Nov 26, 02, 8:20 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hfly:
Swiss is pathetic, they are like the ugliest girl at the ball that will "put out" in order to get a dance.</font>
hfly, I really wonder what Swiss has done to you, as you have been ceasing every opportunity over the past few months to bash this airline.

We are all aware of the flaws of the former SAir Group (mis-)management, particularly in persona of Philip Brugisser. No need to get back to that subject.

As for the new airline, I symphasize with their efforts to once again make the Swiss flag carrier a respectable and succesful company and brand. The intervention of the supervisory board last week to scale back the fleet and cut unprofitable routes indicates that there is now some sound business ratio among the airline's decision makers. The P&L figures are better than the Business Plan projected them. And for the airline products and services themselves, they might not be the ultimate best in the skies, but are up to quite high standards which I personally have come to appreciate. Friendliness and personal attention have improved immensely from the former slightly arrogant SR staff.

Altogether, I wish Swiss well. I appreciate the extra choice that Swiss adds to my routemap and hope that they will eventually succeed in entering an alliance that will make our travel smoother.

May I kindly ask you to either come clear about what has caused you to loath this airline or "remain silent forever".
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Old Nov 26, 02, 8:43 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by HajoFlyer:
... or "remain silent forever".</font>
I really like that, sound so definitive. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
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Old Nov 26, 02, 2:39 pm
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Well......

I do believe that I have elaborated several times over the years why I do/did NOT like Swissair and what they have "done" to me. If it concerns you so greatly, please feel free to use the search feature.

The lounge worker is INCORRECT, digisup. Once again using the search feature either here or on the web will show that DL told SR that they were welcome to join Skyteam (even before it had that name) SR basically felt that they would be threatened by AF and that they were "too good" for the alliance, so did not stay (or rather join) the alliance.

The new Swiss has gone BEGGING on at least two occasions to Skyteam since its inception and has been told flatly that it would not be welcome. Ironically for similar reasons to that which BA cited.

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