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A350 grounding - what is the longer term solution beyond re-utilising A330s?

A350 grounding - what is the longer term solution beyond re-utilising A330s?

Old Aug 6, 2022, 5:57 am
  #46  
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Yes, but not new orders as the poster before me suggested.
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Old Aug 6, 2022, 11:19 am
  #47  
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It was quite sad to see all of the mothballed A350s late last night parked up at the far end of the airport. Unfortunately too dark to get a picture of them.
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 12:51 am
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So sad... I really like the A350s
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 2:33 am
  #49  
 
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Can't help but think that QR needs Airbus more than Airbus need QR.

If QR need new aircraft from any source in the near future they will have to pay through the nose for them.
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 3:25 am
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Originally Posted by Agent69
Can't help but think that QR needs Airbus more than Airbus need QR.

If QR need new aircraft from any source in the near future they will have to pay through the nose for them.
As things stand I agree with you. However, I do think we as the flying public should play more of an active role. The following bullet points are pertinent for me.

1.) Initially Airbus publically denied the existence of a problem. With hindsight, we know this was a false assertion at the time.
2.) They then publically blamed the harsh mid-east conditions and made it to be a 'Qatar only' problem. This while knowing the same issues existed at other airlines with hulls that have never been anywhere near the desert. The havent ever commented in a meaningfull way to the reuters articles, and thus on pt2 they again found to be dishonest.
3.) They then quite publically said it was a minor cosmetic paint imperfections, and put the PR teams to work to make out as if Qatar was trying to get compensation during the covid slow down. Quite frankly the only airline that really kept flying was Qatar, and the latest results show same. There is no meaningfull evidence to suggest Qatar was purely seeking compensation to keep them afloat during Covid. Dishonest again.
4.) Qatar was put into a corner to publically show video of the "minor cosmetic paint imperfections" - which admittedly as a layman dont look minor, nor cosmetic to me. As a layman again Airbus appears dishonest.
5.) They are relying on EU regulators deeming the plane to be safe. I'm not sure I want to 100% take their assurances, when the EU, its members, and its citizens is heavily 'invested' in the success of Airbus. This while simultaneously claiming the Qatari regulator is invested and thus their opinion must be completely ignored. if that were valid, well then so should their regulator be ignored. Seems a case of the pot calling the kettle black again, and far from ethical, another immorality check point against Airbus.
6.) I know if I bought an automobile costing many thousand times less than an A350, an automobile which cannot fall out of the sky, I wouldnt tolerate even "minor cosmetic paint imperfections", why should Qatar having spent billions?
7.) Having flown most airlines globally, Qatar takes my experience as a passenger most seriously, one just needs to sit through ""five star"" Lufthansa business class seat for one long haul flight (the seat which is ideally suited for persons with one leg) to know the difference between caring for customers. Thus based on experienced behaviour alone Qatar in my experience is more likely to put me ahead of profits, something EU, and USA airlines (and to a lesser degree Asian carriers) are willing to do.
8.) Right now airbus isnt talking root cause or permanent fixes.
9.) As a customer we never win being held hostage to a duopoly.
10.) Airbus has been less than honest since moment one with public, they havent taken us into their confidence, and instead want to keep this well away from the public eye, to protect ego, shareprice and profit. Hardly someone I want in my corner.

I think we the flying public should choose to fly boeing only at present, and make it clear to airlines we are taking either the midday or the 2pm departure, because at 1pm they are operating an airbus plane, and airbus puts ego, profit and reputation ahead of our comfort, right to choice, and most importantly safety. Airbus will soon catch a wake up.

I know Airbus will counter argue "other airlines are willing to fly A350". However, are they willing to fly, or are they forced to fly?

Do other airlines have the resources to ground the planes, to make the naughty child that airbus is behave? If not, perhaps Qatar can afford to, and this again proves point 3 that Airbus is dishonest, and solidifies my view that Airbus and other carriers are willing to fly with less than perfect to protect revenue over safety. I expect when I do board a plane that is going to carry me thousands of feet above the ground through the air at hundreds of knots that the plane is 100%, not 99.99 with some minor imperfections. Hence on this matter, Im team Qatar, as much as I have always in the past preferred Airbus planes over Boeing. But right now, solely on the basis of Airbus behaviour, I am "if it aint Boeing I aint going"
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 3:43 am
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Originally Posted by SAWorldVoyager
As things stand I agree with you. However, I do think we as the flying public should play more of an active role. The following bullet points are pertinent for me.

1.) Initially Airbus publically denied the existence of a problem. With hindsight, we know this was a false assertion at the time.
2.) They then publically blamed the harsh mid-east conditions and made it to be a 'Qatar only' problem. This while knowing the same issues existed at other airlines with hulls that have never been anywhere near the desert. The havent ever commented in a meaningfull way to the reuters articles, and thus on pt2 they again found to be dishonest.
3.) They then quite publically said it was a minor cosmetic paint imperfections, and put the PR teams to work to make out as if Qatar was trying to get compensation during the covid slow down. Quite frankly the only airline that really kept flying was Qatar, and the latest results show same. There is no meaningfull evidence to suggest Qatar was purely seeking compensation to keep them afloat during Covid. Dishonest again.
4.) Qatar was put into a corner to publically show video of the "minor cosmetic paint imperfections" - which admittedly as a layman dont look minor, nor cosmetic to me. As a layman again Airbus appears dishonest.
5.) They are relying on EU regulators deeming the plane to be safe. I'm not sure I want to 100% take their assurances, when the EU, its members, and its citizens is heavily 'invested' in the success of Airbus. This while simultaneously claiming the Qatari regulator is invested and thus their opinion must be completely ignored. if that were valid, well then so should their regulator be ignored. Seems a case of the pot calling the kettle black again, and far from ethical, another immorality check point against Airbus.
6.) I know if I bought an automobile costing many thousand times less than an A350, an automobile which cannot fall out of the sky, I wouldnt tolerate even "minor cosmetic paint imperfections", why should Qatar having spent billions?
7.) Having flown most airlines globally, Qatar takes my experience as a passenger most seriously, one just needs to sit through ""five star"" Lufthansa business class seat for one long haul flight (the seat which is ideally suited for persons with one leg) to know the difference between caring for customers. Thus based on experienced behaviour alone Qatar in my experience is more likely to put me ahead of profits, something EU, and USA airlines (and to a lesser degree Asian carriers) are willing to do.
8.) Right now airbus isnt talking root cause or permanent fixes.
9.) As a customer we never win being held hostage to a duopoly.
10.) Airbus has been less than honest since moment one with public, they havent taken us into their confidence, and instead want to keep this well away from the public eye, to protect ego, shareprice and profit. Hardly someone I want in my corner.

I think we the flying public should choose to fly boeing only at present, and make it clear to airlines we are taking either the midday or the 2pm departure, because at 1pm they are operating an airbus plane, and airbus puts ego, profit and reputation ahead of our comfort, right to choice, and most importantly safety. Airbus will soon catch a wake up.

I know Airbus will counter argue "other airlines are willing to fly A350". However, are they willing to fly, or are they forced to fly?

Do other airlines have the resources to ground the planes, to make the naughty child that airbus is behave? If not, perhaps Qatar can afford to, and this again proves point 3 that Airbus is dishonest, and solidifies my view that Airbus and other carriers are willing to fly with less than perfect to protect revenue over safety. I expect when I do board a plane that is going to carry me thousands of feet above the ground through the air at hundreds of knots that the plane is 100%, not 99.99 with some minor imperfections. Hence on this matter, Im team Qatar, as much as I have always in the past preferred Airbus planes over Boeing. But right now, solely on the basis of Airbus behaviour, I am "if it aint Boeing I aint going"
An utterly bizarre post, I will refrain from name calling but I strongly disagree. You honestly think Airbus is putting customers safety at risk so youre only going to fly Boeing? The same Boeing that is culturally broken? The one that has engineers leaving tools in the wiring of 787s, was unwilling to accept its most recent aircraft wasnt safe to fly without further pilot training resulting in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of passengers, the one that is repeatedly delaying launch of its next aircraft because of production issues? Lol, OK.
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 5:36 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by SAWorldVoyager
7.) Having flown most airlines globally, Qatar takes my experience as a passenger most seriously, one just needs to sit through ""five star"" Lufthansa business class seat for one long haul flight (the seat which is ideally suited for persons with one leg) to know the difference between caring for customers. Thus based on experienced behaviour alone Qatar in my experience is more likely to put me ahead of profits, something EU, and USA airlines (and to a lesser degree Asian carriers) are willing to do.
Outside of the airport lounges, their recent BWC programme and onboard, in my experience QR has some of the most woeful service in the industry.
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 8:38 am
  #53  
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QR is a very demanding customer and has used every possible shortcoming on the part of manufacturers to extract their pound of flesh. Both A & B have been on the receiving end of this treatment, be it the A320 neo, the initial A350 delays, the B787 dreamburner start, the B789 delays, the B779 non starter etc etc. I'm sure the joys will continue with the 737-10s. The A350 paint story is an example of a customer going too far and the supplier not able to take it anymore. The fact that they are in a sellers market right now probably helped
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Old Aug 8, 2022, 7:28 pm
  #54  
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I fell victim to QRs infamous aircraft swap and flew on the dreaded A330 to BKK in Y. Honestly you dont get how bad this is unless youve flown on one personally.

This is the IFE screen on a supposedly Five star airline in 2022, without any USB/Power sockets or wifi. Quality and resolution was abysmal made watching anything a pain.



Reminds me of the IFE screen on the good old CX A340s more than 15 years ago (yep these screens are ancient)..

I do hope someone in QR is thinking of a solution to this real quick as using a sub-par aircraft to support some of your core routes is just a poor (temporary) fix and they need to get a grip as soon as possible, this is 2022 not 2006.
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Old Aug 9, 2022, 12:13 am
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by SAWorldVoyager
I do think we as the flying public should play more of an active role.
Pax don't get to vote on which aircraft airlines get/use. In fact, most pax have no clue about the plane they're flying on and just pick the cheapest fare. I don't think this is up to the public to resolve. I believe many situations should NOT be handled by the public; it's why we, as the public, employ people to do that for us (regulators, governments, courts, etc.)
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Old Aug 10, 2022, 6:13 am
  #56  
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It looks like the 8th A380 (A7-APC) came back to service as well starting 2 days ago on the SYD route.

so that leaves QR with one more A380 to re-activate if needed as I understand the last one is being used for spareparts.
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Old Aug 23, 2022, 2:33 am
  #57  
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WY is helping out with A332 to BEY,CMB & KRT:

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220822-qraug22wy330
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Old Aug 23, 2022, 12:12 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by SAWorldVoyager
As things stand I agree with you. However, I do think we as the flying public should play more of an active role. The following bullet points are pertinent for me.

1.) Initially Airbus publically denied the existence of a problem. With hindsight, we know this was a false assertion at the time.
2.) They then publically blamed the harsh mid-east conditions and made it to be a 'Qatar only' problem. This while knowing the same issues existed at other airlines with hulls that have never been anywhere near the desert. The havent ever commented in a meaningfull way to the reuters articles, and thus on pt2 they again found to be dishonest.
3.) They then quite publically said it was a minor cosmetic paint imperfections, and put the PR teams to work to make out as if Qatar was trying to get compensation during the covid slow down. Quite frankly the only airline that really kept flying was Qatar, and the latest results show same. There is no meaningfull evidence to suggest Qatar was purely seeking compensation to keep them afloat during Covid. Dishonest again.
4.) Qatar was put into a corner to publically show video of the "minor cosmetic paint imperfections" - which admittedly as a layman dont look minor, nor cosmetic to me. As a layman again Airbus appears dishonest.
5.) They are relying on EU regulators deeming the plane to be safe. I'm not sure I want to 100% take their assurances, when the EU, its members, and its citizens is heavily 'invested' in the success of Airbus. This while simultaneously claiming the Qatari regulator is invested and thus their opinion must be completely ignored. if that were valid, well then so should their regulator be ignored. Seems a case of the pot calling the kettle black again, and far from ethical, another immorality check point against Airbus.
6.) I know if I bought an automobile costing many thousand times less than an A350, an automobile which cannot fall out of the sky, I wouldnt tolerate even "minor cosmetic paint imperfections", why should Qatar having spent billions?
7.) Having flown most airlines globally, Qatar takes my experience as a passenger most seriously, one just needs to sit through ""five star"" Lufthansa business class seat for one long haul flight (the seat which is ideally suited for persons with one leg) to know the difference between caring for customers. Thus based on experienced behaviour alone Qatar in my experience is more likely to put me ahead of profits, something EU, and USA airlines (and to a lesser degree Asian carriers) are willing to do.
8.) Right now airbus isnt talking root cause or permanent fixes.
9.) As a customer we never win being held hostage to a duopoly.
10.) Airbus has been less than honest since moment one with public, they havent taken us into their confidence, and instead want to keep this well away from the public eye, to protect ego, shareprice and profit. Hardly someone I want in my corner.

I think we the flying public should choose to fly boeing only at present, and make it clear to airlines we are taking either the midday or the 2pm departure, because at 1pm they are operating an airbus plane, and airbus puts ego, profit and reputation ahead of our comfort, right to choice, and most importantly safety. Airbus will soon catch a wake up.

I know Airbus will counter argue "other airlines are willing to fly A350". However, are they willing to fly, or are they forced to fly?

Do other airlines have the resources to ground the planes, to make the naughty child that airbus is behave? If not, perhaps Qatar can afford to, and this again proves point 3 that Airbus is dishonest, and solidifies my view that Airbus and other carriers are willing to fly with less than perfect to protect revenue over safety. I expect when I do board a plane that is going to carry me thousands of feet above the ground through the air at hundreds of knots that the plane is 100%, not 99.99 with some minor imperfections. Hence on this matter, Im team Qatar, as much as I have always in the past preferred Airbus planes over Boeing. But right now, solely on the basis of Airbus behaviour, I am "if it aint Boeing I aint going"

Don't get me wrong, but QR had several ways of approaching this issue diplomatically to sort things out behind the scenes. This is the real world where we are talking about making or losing millions of dollars and not some high school drama where you get to trash talk someone who made you unhappy. QR's product is excellent, don't get me wrong, but their way of handling of this issue? I am not exactly a fan of that, and that's starting to affect them as well (Leasing Oman A330s, deploying ancient QR A330s, frequent equipment changes incl QSuites).
If you call Airbus out as the "naughty child", what about the pre-2019 Boeing that launched the 737MAX and ultimately led to 346 deaths, even after which, Boeing initially refused to acknowledge any problems with the aircraft type and instead blamed it on the pilots? The widespread backlash is what caused Boeing to investigate the fatal flaw of the MCAS.

(If you want to counter saying QSuite equipments aren't related to the A350 issue, well, I was scheduled to fly the Qsuites to the States and back in January 2022, but lo and behold! the Airbus-Qatar saga intensified just right then, and the aircraft got swapped out 3 hours prior to departure. I absolutely love flying QR, but when flying a 5 star airline, I have my set of expectations.)
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Old Aug 24, 2022, 12:05 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by qraec777
Don't get me wrong, but QR had several ways of approaching this issue diplomatically to sort things out behind the scenes. This is the real world where we are talking about making or losing millions of dollars and not some high school drama where you get to trash talk someone who made you unhappy. QR's product is excellent, don't get me wrong, but their way of handling of this issue? I am not exactly a fan of that, and that's starting to affect them as well (Leasing Oman A330s, deploying ancient QR A330s, frequent equipment changes incl QSuites).
If you call Airbus out as the "naughty child", what about the pre-2019 Boeing that launched the 737MAX and ultimately led to 346 deaths, even after which, Boeing initially refused to acknowledge any problems with the aircraft type and instead blamed it on the pilots? The widespread backlash is what caused Boeing to investigate the fatal flaw of the MCAS.

(If you want to counter saying QSuite equipments aren't related to the A350 issue, well, I was scheduled to fly the Qsuites to the States and back in January 2022, but lo and behold! the Airbus-Qatar saga intensified just right then, and the aircraft got swapped out 3 hours prior to departure. I absolutely love flying QR, but when flying a 5 star airline, I have my set of expectations.)
Boeing has been much worse than Airbus in the recent past.
But that's not the point.
QR had been a leader in introducing high quality J seats and service.
However, many airlines have been upgrading their J seats. Most now offer equivalent solo seats, some with closing doors too.
On the other hand, QR has been degrading its product and offering awful A330 seats on many routes.
QR is shooting itself on the foot. Its glowing reputation compared to other airlines is going down the drain.
It is a slow process, but as more and more pax experience it, QR will have a hard time growing its reputation again.
ANd they are not price-competitive anymore.
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Old Aug 29, 2022, 5:43 am
  #60  
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AY will assist QR with daily A330 service from HEL/ARN/CPH starting W22/23. I suppose this will free up 3 B787.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...-doha-doh.html

https://company.finnair.com/en/media...ews?id=4339820
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