QR Airspace

Old Jan 3, 20, 7:42 pm
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QR Airspace

What would happen to QR flights if Iran airspace went void. I have a lot of luck booking flights from Canada going to South East Asia - Always perfect timing as to the areas we decide to spend a couple of weeks over the winter. Well actually it's not the final destination it's usually the connector other than Bangkok several years ago.

Does QR have any other options - would they use their codeshare partners if need be? We are flying YUL > DOH > BKK and return same route in early February

I know jumping to what ifs.....and such but I have a feeling this one is not going to turn out good!

Last edited by msm2000uk; Jan 3, 20 at 8:23 pm Reason: To prevent OMNI
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Old Jan 3, 20, 8:51 pm
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This is an important question for those of us flying QR in the coming days.
I remember that there was some thread a few months back when some tanker was attacked. I could not find it. Any help?
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Old Jan 3, 20, 9:44 pm
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As they do with some of their flights inbound from the EU and US, they would enter Iraq airspace from NW of Erbil and follow the jetway that take them east of Baghdad, over Basra and then exiting into Kuwait FIR (at least that's how we were doing it after I retired from ATL in 2015 and went to instruct/advise at Baghdad Approach for 2.5 yrs).
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Old Jan 3, 20, 11:08 pm
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South Eastbound toward Bangkok / SE Asia would be impossible I imagine.
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Old Jan 3, 20, 11:46 pm
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Heading east I guess they have to route NW over Irag and turn east over Turkey? Would add quite a bit of flight time.
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Old Jan 4, 20, 12:28 am
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Even if Qatar houses some important US assets I doubt you would see QR shut out of Irani airspace in general, Qatar and Iran seem to be on pretty friendly terms. There my be isolated cases of airspace being unavailable if this goes beyong a pissing contest, but that is something that probably would be worked around as it happens. Unless this turns into a fully fledges Bolton-esque wet dream, then all bets are off.

-A
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Old Jan 4, 20, 1:45 am
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I was based in Doha during the 1st Gulf War. It was odd to be held on the tarmac at Doha awaiting departure being told by the captain that we would leave once a group of Canadian F-18s had landed following sorties over Iraq,
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Old Jan 4, 20, 7:50 am
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This was the thread I was looking for.
Will QRs operations be affected by a US Iran conflict?

Given that many ME countries have banned QR from their airspace, the closing of Iranian air space would make it very difficult for QR. Sure they are ways around it, but QR would be competing with other airlines.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 3:27 am
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The entire QR ops is depending on the Tehran and Bahrain FIR. US, Canadian and British carriers are avoiding the Tehran FIR completely since June, so the 602, 688 and 860 over Iraq are very crowded already. Besides that the entire traffic bound for S.E. Asia and south China which avoids the Tehran FIR squeezes thru the Bahrain FIR:



Bottom line is that all ME3 will be severly impacted by any closure of the Tehran, Baghdad or Bahrain FIR.

Some links:
https://safeairspace.net/iran/
https://safeairspace.net/iraq/
https://skyvector.com/
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Old Jan 5, 20, 3:41 am
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Your first picture leaves me perplexed.
My understanding is that Bahrain, like Saudi Arabia and UAE, has banned overflights by QR. Can QR still use Barhain FIR?
From you picture, it looks impossible to fly out of Qatar.

I have fond this map of current routes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_...ar_Flights.png
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Old Jan 5, 20, 7:35 am
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Your first picture leaves me perplexed.
My understanding is that Bahrain, like Saudi Arabia and UAE, has banned overflights by QR. Can QR still use Barhain FIR?
From you picture, it looks impossible to fly out of Qatar.

I have fond this map of current routes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_...ar_Flights.png
I'm slightly out of my depth, but I think this is covered in ICAO rules (the Chicago Convention maybe?) that all signatores have to mutually allow schedules flights through their airspace, and that this was some of the original kerfuffle when the Qatar blockade was started, as some of the restrictions put in place were in violation of this arrangement.

-A
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Old Jan 5, 20, 9:13 am
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Bahrain backtracked their ban. UAE and Jeddah is still in place.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 11:12 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Bahrain backtracked their ban. UAE and Jeddah is still in place.
What I'd like to know is how did Bahrain get more airspace than Qatar
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Old Jan 5, 20, 1:20 pm
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Originally Posted by nas6034 View Post
What I'd like to know is how did Bahrain get more airspace than Qatar
Bahrain & Qatar were both British protectorates and only gained full independence in the early 1970s.

When Bahrain and Qatar gained their independence from the UK in 1971, there wasn’t any change to the FIR shapes in the Gulf region, which had previously been determined based on where military radars had initially been installed. These radars were positioned from a military efficiency perspective, without taking into account a future of thriving Gulf airline carriers.
Back in the 1970s, it was determined that equally distributing FIR areas (airspace) to each state would require flight crew to speak to four different air traffic controllers within the space of around 15-20 minutes. While there are some areas of the world where this occurs, the Gulf states didn’t see the need for a redistribution, given the hassle it would present to airline flight crew.
https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2018/0...-the-blockade/
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Old Jan 5, 20, 3:05 pm
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Bahrain & Qatar were both British protectorates and only gained full independence in the early 1970s.




https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2018/0...-the-blockade/
Thanks for the article. I do wonder how much of it was the Gulf states saw no need (as they did not have airlines of their own at that time?) to reallocate airspace versus the ease of convenience for western powers (i.e airlines) that in the shadows ensured a proper allocation of airspace should not occur.
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