mpkz

Ah yes, an age old way to win an argument, if there is a clear flaw in customer service, just compare the hard product to an Admirals Club.

Hard product doesn't excuse asking a platinum customer to leave the lounge after letting him in (you made the mistake, the marginal cost of keeping the customer in is almost zero). Hard product doesn't excuse the fact that the lounge access policy changed 3 times in 3 trips. This is basic customer service.

Outside of that case, you could also say that hard product doesn't cancel out ground staff who report incorrect availability, the slightly creepy shower attendants asking for tips or standing behind you while you pee and so on. Yes, other airlines have problems (old grumpy BA staff etc.) but that's not an excuse for Qatar to be bad. Yes, the hard product is good but that's not an excuse for utterly incompetent customer service.

And has anyone here actually used Al Maha regularly?

msm2000uk

Lounge staff are nothing to do with QR, so that's a pretty irrelevant point.

M

lost_in_translation

The lounge staff wearing Qatar Airways’ uniforms and applying QR policies are ‘nothing to do with QR’? I think you perhaps mean not directly employed by QR, the idea that lounge staff in Al Safwa and Al Mourjan are in no way influenced by or connected to QR is preposterous.

My take is that being asked to leave after being granted access is itself a fairly minor thing, but symptomatic of broader problems with the way QR works that do mar the overall QR experience significantly for me.

Dr. HFH

Doesn't that say a lot right there? That's just it. You're comparing AA's top lounge to QR's lesser (of the two) lounge.


Agree completely.


But, IMO, the point remains valid. Let's compare top lounge to top lounge, then, Flagship Lounge to Al Safwa. First, of course, not everyone who gains admission to the FL is eligible for FL Dining. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that they are. Strictly on dining, I'd give the edge to FL Dining over Al Safwa. Food? FL wins. Service? Tied, IMO. Décor? Al Safwa, particularly when compared to LAX, where FL dining almost feels like it's in an unused back room.

And how about the rest of the lounges. Not being crowded? Al Safwa. Sleeping rooms? FL doesn't have them. Business center? Al Safwa, with individual rooms with computers (one per room) for your use. Ever tried to use the computer alcove in FL at LAX? Talk about fails! Private duty-free shopping experience? Al Safwa; FL doesn't have it. Multiple eating areas, coffee/tea, soft drinks, desserts, available in multiple locations throughout the lounge? Al Safwa. Sushi? Al Safwa. Tarmac views? FL. (I use the FLs at JFK and LAX fairly regularly, but I've visited no others.) Showers? I give that to FL, but only by a small margin. The décor is much nicer at AS; but the lack of ventilation in the AS shower rooms can be brutal at times. Exclusivity? Much easier to get into FL; but I would balance that against the fact that once you gain admission to Al Safwa, everyone has access to dining. Any criteria I've missed?


I agree. It was petty, silly and short-sighted.


I don't see the lounge policy changing as a problem. They're trying to find a configuration that works. If they didn't change it, people would complain (as they have since the beginning) that the admission policy is too restrictive.


Whether it's a system error, human error, or whatever, mistakes happen. I'm not perfect, and I don't expect perfection.


While shower and bathroom attendants are uncommon in the U.S., they're much more common in other areas of the world, more so in areas where society isn't as egalitarian as we (in the U.S.) try to make it. It's not uncommon for a bathroom attendant to stand there and hand you a towel after you wash your hands, for example, after which it's customary to tip him/her. While I personally never felt really comfortable with it, that is the way it works.


I agree; although I wouldn't call customer service "utterly incompetent." My customer service experiences with QR have ALL been outstanding; so I would call it uneven and inconsistent, ranging from one extreme to the other. As fender5787 said, "QR performs better on the ground than many carriers on certain aspects and fails on others."

ph-ndr

I think we've had this dance before, but basically, with airlines being sticklers for keeping customers to the exacting details of whatever documents was signed (explicit and implict) at the purchase of a ticket, I don't think it's unfair to keep the airline to the standards of their own marketing material. Few airlines touts it's own horn as hard as QR when it comes making sure we are left in no uncertain terms that they think they are 5 stars across the board and the best thing to aviation since Kitty Hawk. I don't have the same attitude towards other airlines I fly (e.g. SK, basically "we'll get you there, somehow, and it'll look like IKEA.").

-A

IAN-UK

Or, let's make a valiant attempt to compare apples with pears

QR's unique flagship lounge (al Safwa) was intended, designed and opened for first-class passengers. Not for those who fly a lot with the carrier itself, or (shudder!) chancers who fly a lot with other airlines in the same alliance.

AA's eponymous Flagship Lounges let ME in: say no more
They even open their doors to me when I'm travelling on an economy ticket, flying British Airways; imagine!

(OK all sorts of caveats apply, but I paint with a broad brush).



So while AA's Flagship represents a network of lounges, offering utilitarian luxury to a mass market: Safwa is a single, exclusive, highly restricted luxury product aimed at a tightly defined group. Comparing them is as pointless as comparing Intercontinental hotels with la Réserve in Geneva: IC's are nice enough and the odd one might offer a larger pool, better view than LR, but on the whole....



Now we have moved to a situation where circumstances conspired to render Safwa a concept with something approaching white elephant status. The tightly defined group of those admitted shrank dramatically in number, while operating costs remained much the same. I'm sure a full costing per lounge user would have stunned, well, anyone.

So it was perhaps inevitable that entry rules relax to allow paid entry; then, as a sop to FFP members unhappy at the way the programme had evolved, the doors have opened to them, too. The marginal cost of handling extra customers is negligible, and the thrill of being admitted to the holy-of-holies seems to have quietened the spat with FFP members. So all round, a win-win.

Well, a win-win until we start seeing complaints that the hoi-polloi are compromising the exclusivity, the bedrooms are unavailable etc etc

mpkz

As was already mentioned, I get access to Flagship Lounges with AA despite flying domestic economy or another airline in economy. Not so with AS. Yes, AS is a nicer lounge, but the comparison is not valid as most of my flights do not qualify for AS access and it doesn't excuse the bad service.

It's ok to change it once in a while but right now the access rules are changing regularly (same for AM) without announcements to customers and even worse, with unclear announcements to staff. Especially the period recently where plats in economy where being granted AM access was a disaster because there was no clear policy about it, sometimes it was peak hours only, sometimes it was all times, sometimes it was never but it was basically unpredictable and changed flight-to-flight. Yes, AM is a much nicer lounge than almost anything else offered in the OW network (though no access to Y makes their lounge offering significantly worse for a status member in Y or on an upgraded ticket) but QR needs to get their .... together when it comes to clear policies that they stick to.

It was happening so regularly that honestly I was surprised when QR lounge staff actually managed to read availability on a flight correctly.

I've lived in SE Asia, China and several places in Europe and I've never felt it customary to tip a bathroom attendant or felt that it was normal for them to stand behind me. In South Africa is maybe the only place where I felt tips were encouraged.

HOWEVER - airport lounges are typically no-tipping zones, even in cultures where tipping is common (never felt this in the middle east either). And QR apparently themselves said that lounge attendants should not be going for tips.

QR has a great hard product, even on the ground (if you are flying J). QR has a service culture where the staff are generally polite, which is often hit and miss on Western airlines (maybe due to unions/worker protections making their jobs safer). However, when it comes to dealing with situations, taking initiative and so on., QR employees (in Doha) often fail miserably. At best, the quality of work is as you expect - they rarely surpass expectations and surprise you with great service (which staff on Western airlines often do)

NoY

LOL...of course its relevant if they are working for QR (even via a third party) & wearing QR uniforms. Wow, so defensive.

msm2000uk

Neither the bathroom nor shower attendants wear QR uniforms, which are the two areas the comment related to.

M

NoY

They are employed by QR & are front line staff dealing with QR customers. Simple.

fender5787

At AS now. More crowded than I’ve seen it before (albeit it’s a small sample size since it’s my 2nd visit), but still amazingly peaceful and pleasant . No wait for a shower and they also had sleeping rooms available, but it seems they’re trying to save them for folks who have over a 4 hr layover. Surprisingly, WiFi works decently well too! And I’m totally enjoying the @Dr. HFH diet of French toast and LGD .

SullyofDoha

It probably makes sense to keep it for people who can maximize the 6 hours. Besides, even if you used it for two hours, it still has to be cleaned. They would probably like to have a maximum 4 room turnovers a day than 8 or 12!

Silver Falcon

I had a two hour stopover using the Al Safwa on Friday night about midnight.

I had a whole big shower room/bathroom (inside the Men's Spa area) which was great after 9hr flight. Afterwards had a nice meal, with an interesting amuse bouche and drinks & cold towel, before proceeding for my next flight.

The lounge was pleasantly quiet - much better than Al Mourjan - which I previously found quite crowded at this time.

I did ask out of curiosity how the "2 guest policy worked" - i.e. did they have to be on the same flight as me, or do the guests also have to be business class passengers? But they were not completely sure.

Bottom line I enjoyed the lounge.

SF

Traveller999

One question, was the LGD chilled proper?

Yenakad

Just to clarify, so there are showers beside the ones in the rooms? In both Men's & Female's Spa area? Does someone know if there is a 'direct' access from the transit screening area to the AS lounge by elevator (same as to Al Mourjan)