AAB threatens to leave oneworld
#136
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: EC Silver FC Silver
Posts: 34
In the traditional model I can fly from Machester to London to HKG with BA, or from LAX with American, then hop on a short connection flight to somewhere else in Asia with Cathay, both the domestic carrier and destination carrier benefit from alliance. Qatar are directly challenging this model for any origin and destination point , there is no need to use BA, Iberia or Finnair in Europe; Cathay, JAL or Malaysia in Asia. If Qatar will fly you direct to your destination from Doha and bypass the regional hub.
Is the assumption that those situated in Manchester and Bristol only fly BA shorthaul throughout the year because they earn status with Qatar - and would otherwise stick with EasyJet?
At best I can see this being a zero sum game - and understand the broad apathy shown by OW CEOs in response to AAB's comments. As I've already said, from a passenger perspective, I really hope QR stay in the alliance.
#137
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 840
Forgive me if I am being naive - I appreciate your point that QR offers better one-stop options from non-hub airports than any other Oneworld provider, and this is a benefit to passengers, especially situated 1 flight away from hub airports. Though I struggle to see how this benefits the other alliance partners, rather than take away their business?
In the traditional model I can fly from Machester to London to HKG with BA, or from LAX with American, then hop on a short connection flight to somewhere else in Asia with Cathay, both the domestic carrier and destination carrier benefit from alliance. Qatar are directly challenging this model for any origin and destination point , there is no need to use BA, Iberia or Finnair in Europe; Cathay, JAL or Malaysia in Asia. If Qatar will fly you direct to your destination from Doha and bypass the regional hub.
Is the assumption that those situated in Manchester and Bristol only fly BA shorthaul throughout the year because they earn status with Qatar - and would otherwise stick with EasyJet?
At best I can see this being a zero sum game - and understand the broad apathy shown by OW CEOs in response to AAB's comments. As I've already said, from a passenger perspective, I really hope QR stay in the alliance.
In the traditional model I can fly from Machester to London to HKG with BA, or from LAX with American, then hop on a short connection flight to somewhere else in Asia with Cathay, both the domestic carrier and destination carrier benefit from alliance. Qatar are directly challenging this model for any origin and destination point , there is no need to use BA, Iberia or Finnair in Europe; Cathay, JAL or Malaysia in Asia. If Qatar will fly you direct to your destination from Doha and bypass the regional hub.
Is the assumption that those situated in Manchester and Bristol only fly BA shorthaul throughout the year because they earn status with Qatar - and would otherwise stick with EasyJet?
At best I can see this being a zero sum game - and understand the broad apathy shown by OW CEOs in response to AAB's comments. As I've already said, from a passenger perspective, I really hope QR stay in the alliance.
#138
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,209
analysis of qr's benefit to oneworld on some of the points and travel websites focus on actual destinations served by qr but not served by other oneworld carriers and that these are limited. Qr adds a lot of 1-stop route options to oneworld that are not possible without qr or only possible with a lot of backtracking. For example just because oneworld serves both budapest and penang, hong kong and nairobi, manchester and karachi, thessaloniki and melbourne doesn't mean there are good oneworld routings between those city pairs without qr, you can repeat that between many european-asian, asia-african, european-african and even asian-asian routings.
edi-doh-dad ^
#139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,495
It simply makes a membership in a Oneworld FFP much more attractive which benefits all carriers, especially for consumers out of the home markets of the member carriers. If there are big gaps in the network it makes a membership in a competing alliance e.g. Star Alliance more attractive. Think of for example mainland Europe Oneworld status holders, having QR as an option East might be enough for some people to not consider making a switch to Star Alliance (and access to LH/TK's networks).
Situations vary a lot depending on pax location and destinations. But let's take the case of a pax located in Europe.
Con:
QR is a major competitor to Asia. QR offers one-stop alternatives to a huge number of destinations (except maybe China) and BA is competing for that business. Flying from CDG, I used to only use BA, which is considerably cheaper than the nonstop alternatives on CX and AF. Now, I mostly fly QR rather than BA (plus a few expensive nonstops on other airlines). Remember that BA longhaul does a huge (maybe majority) of business with transit pax. QR is hurting BA badly. As QR product is better than BA in J, it is now the case that BA one-stops are systematically cheaper than QR.
Pro:
It's an incentive for some pax to remain in OW rather than switch to ST or *A and take some business away from other OW airlines.
We could multiply the examples and each one is a bit different from another. But I believe that OW airlines would not be unhappy to see QR leave. The pro argument is weak compared to the con. They probably did not expect QR to be so successful when QR started negotiating to join OW. Frankly, the fact that QR is a large but minority shareholder in BA is weak. IAG/BA does not need more capital, they are very profitable, therefore QR has currently little leverage at IAG. The situation is a bit different at CX, but not dramatic.
#140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 16,963
Forgive me if I am being naive - I appreciate your point that QR offers better one-stop options from non-hub airports than any other Oneworld provider, and this is a benefit to passengers, especially situated 1 flight away from hub airports. Though I struggle to see how this benefits the other alliance partners, rather than take away their business?
In the traditional model I can fly from Machester to London to HKG with BA, or from LAX with American, then hop on a short connection flight to somewhere else in Asia with Cathay, both the domestic carrier and destination carrier benefit from alliance. Qatar are directly challenging this model for any origin and destination point , there is no need to use BA, Iberia or Finnair in Europe; Cathay, JAL or Malaysia in Asia. If Qatar will fly you direct to your destination from Doha and bypass the regional hub.
Is the assumption that those situated in Manchester and Bristol only fly BA shorthaul throughout the year because they earn status with Qatar - and would otherwise stick with EasyJet?
At best I can see this being a zero sum game - and understand the broad apathy shown by OW CEOs in response to AAB's comments. As I've already said, from a passenger perspective, I really hope QR stay in the alliance.
In the traditional model I can fly from Machester to London to HKG with BA, or from LAX with American, then hop on a short connection flight to somewhere else in Asia with Cathay, both the domestic carrier and destination carrier benefit from alliance. Qatar are directly challenging this model for any origin and destination point , there is no need to use BA, Iberia or Finnair in Europe; Cathay, JAL or Malaysia in Asia. If Qatar will fly you direct to your destination from Doha and bypass the regional hub.
Is the assumption that those situated in Manchester and Bristol only fly BA shorthaul throughout the year because they earn status with Qatar - and would otherwise stick with EasyJet?
At best I can see this being a zero sum game - and understand the broad apathy shown by OW CEOs in response to AAB's comments. As I've already said, from a passenger perspective, I really hope QR stay in the alliance.
Sure, some passengers from MAN to Asia are leaking away from Heathrow and BA to Doha, but they are staying within OneWorld.
Other fine alternatives from Manchester are KLM/Air France and LH/LX/OS with TK as well. Not to mention the other GCC carriers. So the QR alternative does something to prevent migrations to other alliances.
#141
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 424
I see many new USA based cities listed on the USA based qatarairways.com site for "Our latest flight deals..."
If my recollection is correct these new cities look familiar to a time when they were listed but never had possibilities of booking, San Francisco, Seattle, Minneapolis, Detroit and Seattle.
Clicking through a few showed some booking now possible traveling with AA ( including AA's regional airlines ) being the feeder to another QR departing point within the USA. This is the first time I have seen them use AA as a possibility.
QR has been using B6 for a while but noticed another new one today AS.
If my recollection is correct these new cities look familiar to a time when they were listed but never had possibilities of booking, San Francisco, Seattle, Minneapolis, Detroit and Seattle.
Clicking through a few showed some booking now possible traveling with AA ( including AA's regional airlines ) being the feeder to another QR departing point within the USA. This is the first time I have seen them use AA as a possibility.
QR has been using B6 for a while but noticed another new one today AS.
#142
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 82
This article was in yesterday's paper: https://www.gulf-times.com/story/621...o-resolve-issu
He's not really saying anything new, but it does sound like the clock is ticking...
He's not really saying anything new, but it does sound like the clock is ticking...
Last edited by RSDoha; Feb 6, 2019 at 11:01 pm Reason: trying to be less click-baity
#143
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,495
This article was in yesterday's paper: https://www.gulf-times.com/story/621...o-resolve-issu
He's not really saying anything new, but it does sound like the clock is ticking...
He's not really saying anything new, but it does sound like the clock is ticking...
#144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,653
OTOH I wouldn't be shocked if the other airlines aren't sticking to the rules in the Charter. AAB is no dope. My money's on he knows exactly what he's doing.
#145
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Here
Programs: HHonors Diamond, AA EXP
Posts: 1,496
#147
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
1, QR bought stakes in IAG: AA's transatlantic JV partner
2, QR bought stakes in LATAM: AA's Latin American partner
3, QR bought stakes in CX: QF's previous rival, who was unhappy with QF for quite a long time until recently. And this is the airline always seen as a weakest link that may leave OW due to Air China's ownership
4, QR bought stakes in CZ, more than AA: CZ is seen by AA as its China strategic holding and have grand plans. Now QR had come in to join in the battle (is there is any).
So QR is not only talking. They bought into AA's friends and QF's rivals. It will have potential to seriously damaging AA's influence on IAG, LATAM and CZ. I am sure if there is any chance, QR would have bought stakes in JL as well.
To me, QR and AA are both to blame for this mess. AA single handed blocked and cancelled codeshare with QR, and brought the fight again ME3 to public. but AA is the least affected in the US3 V ME3 battle. QR in other hand is too arrogant and get into being personal too soon and too red faced. Both needs to settle the differences in private. AAB is unlikely to leave QR very soon. And with QR's influence on IAG, LATAM and CZ, it may bring continue power struggle in the alliance and it could be the slow death of oneworld.
#149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,653
AAB "unikely" to leave QR? Ah, chongcao, you are, indeed, a master of understatement. He has singlehandedly built a powerhouse of an airline from nearly nothing, perhaps even more so than Bob Crandall did at AA. He personally designed what is likely the world's leading J hard product, at least for now. J catering is generally acknowledged to be way ahead of competition in J. The redesign of Y seats will make QR a leader there, too. He's also been a leader in strategies to develop Qatari tourism in the face of a boycott that was intended to bring the country to its knees and could have been devastating. He has complete control in his portfolio and the Al Thani family seems to love him.
He's a verrry smart person, and a strategic thinker. I have no doubt that he knows exactly what he's doing with regard to his public and private positioning vis--vis OneWorld.
He's a verrry smart person, and a strategic thinker. I have no doubt that he knows exactly what he's doing with regard to his public and private positioning vis--vis OneWorld.