henkybaby

Just out of curiosity: what is the definition of a business class flight in this context?

Is it that the business class add ons are offered, like extra luggage, lounge access, extra miles, etc? On many airlines there may be no difference in the seat or not even a separate cabin. They may not offer a business cabin but still offer a business fare.

I am guessing that the answer will come when the OP gets his FFP credit and he will see if the flight is credited as business or not. It is only a 1,2 hr flight after all. Did the OP missed out on anything, like the aforementioned benefits?

TravellingSalesman

While I agree with your comments about lawyers,

why is the screenshot OP posted (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/attac...8&d=1454949304) not enough?

remdk

Thank you TravellingSalesman for pointing out the obvious that others are too busy arguing about academic points to see.

Jetstar similar to many other airlines has no specific Business Class cabin as has been stated on this thread. This does not prevent Jetstar having a Business Class fare with associated service.

The screenshot clearly indicates that this was a Business Class ticket or a 'Max. Bundle' ticket

Thus OP has received what he paid for, Business Class!

payam81

How about you take the time to read the thread before ordering other FT members on what to say/not say? OP did post a screenshot which clearly indicated I class. I of course would like to see a copy of the TICKET email though, as that is ultimately the only document that matters.

If you find any posts offensive or believe they violate FT TOS, by all means use the alert function and let a moderator know about it.

Different countries have different and very often contrasting laws. Just because you're a lawyer from X country it doesn't mean you can make a legal argument about a case that's governed under country Y's laws.

zebrametalevel

All the airline systems / GDSs I've interacted with distinguish between cabin and fare. The cabin in the screenshot is described as "Business Class", and the fare is "I". "I" is JetStar's fare class for "Codeshare Economy", however it's one of QR's codes for a Business class fare. As a programmer, I see an obvious area for caution there straight away...

If I price up a ticket from DOH to CNX, the connecting leg on PG - which has no business class cabin - is clearly marked as economy. As QatarA340 pointed out, when he prices up the itinerary the OP had on the QR site, it clearly marks the leg as economy.

This should have happened for the OP. The OP said it didn't, and provided a picture supporting that. I no longer see how there are any other logical conclusions than:

a) There's a problem with the QR site
b) The OP photoshopped a photo to win an internet argument

Either is possible, but probably best we assume the former?

MeltingAlf

*rolls eyes*

How wonderful! Why don't you offer any way out for OP then? It seems you are here only to blaspheme the rest of us rather than offer any form of advice, and to be honest, that is to put it kindly.

---

And really, are there any other ways of recourse for OP in the first place, given the apparent point of redress to QR has been exhausted? I suspect not.

LukeO9

Surely the facts aren't to be validated, rather, assumed.
As I suggested above, doesn't a forum such as this one, serve a purpose that does not necessarily require proof that a poster's situation is real and/or is in need of advice?
This is why I declare that posts stating a suspicion that the website did portray the particular sector as economy, and that the OP is mistaken, are irrelevant.

greg99

You can't.

I don't think anybody here is questioning that the OP believes he has a legitimate concern.

The issue, though is that OP asked:

Nobody can answer his question without more facts than we have been provided. All we know is that he had an email that said that the class of travel was business.

In order to answer his question (again: "What legal actions can I consider using?"), we would need to see the actual ticketing information to know whether he actually booked and paid for a business class seat PEN-SIN or an economy class seat (as illustrated by a ticket).

If he booked and paid for, and was actually ticketed on a business class fare PEN-SIN, he probably has different potential remedies than he would have if he was ticketed into an economy fare PEN-SIN, regardless of whether the website displayed business.

You can't just *assume* the facts, because they could easily be different from what one might expect, and the facts determine the remedies available.

Greg

LukeO9

As I stated previously, the response from Jeff_ should have ended the thread...no additional advice appeared to be required.

Since you've continued this particular sub-thread, another aspect of your post I found to much amusement was the suggestion that the OP may have committed fraud ("without alterations on his part that will distort the meaning and hence our views of said matter"; also noted by zebrametalevel) and went to this forum with it....for what reason I couldn't even guess.
Wonderful stuff.

remdk

There was an error in my previous post in this thread in that I failed to notice that not all Jetstar flights have dedicated Business class seats.

On one class routes there is still a business class offering. It is called 'Max Bundle'.

If you look at http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/plannin...res/fare-types you will see that the differences between Business and 'Max Bundle' are small except for seating, priority boarding and lounge access. Thus you must conclude that 'Max Bundle' is a Business class type offering for one class routes.

From the screenshot OP has supplied it is also obvious that the ticket was classed as either Business class or 'Max Bundle'. Thus OP has got exactly what he paid for!

justforfun

No, there is Economy Max Bundle and there is Business and Business Max Bundle. Three different offerings.

And the difference is not small. Seating, priority boarding, lounge access. Those are what make business class. This link actually proves the OP's case. Economy Max Bundle and Business Class are two different products, according to Jetstar. Business Class includes a seat with 38" pitch, and a whole bunch of other perks that the OP did not receive. What is so difficult to comprehend? The OP's itinerary clearly stated Business Class and he did not receive it.

When you make a Penang-Singapore booking, you only get 3 options: Economy Starter, Economy Plus Bundle, Economy Max Bundle.

greg99

The itinerary doesn't govern - the ticket and the conditions of carriage govern.

OP *may* have an unfair trade practices/false advertising claim or something like that, but we have no idea what contractual rights OP has unless/until OP tells us what the ticket actually says.

remdk

Justforfun neither Business class nor 'Max Bundle' live up to your definition of Business class!

Business has Priority boarding, 'Max Bundle' does not.
Business has better seats but 'Max Bundle' has “Free Extra Leg Room & Upfront Seat Selection”.
'Max Bundle' Has lounge access, Business does not.
In 'Max Bundle' you can earn FF points with several partner airlines, but not in Business.
IFE etc is free in Business but purchasable in 'Max Bundle' .
tickets are refundable in 'Max Bundle' but not in Business.
Meals are included in both whereas they are purchasable in Economy.

When SAS introduced Business Class in 1980/81 they sold it on better food, better service and lounge access. Nothing about Priority boarding or luxury seating, just front of the aircraft seats. The seats were economy seats (3+3) and all six in a row were used. Later LH and others introduced plastic 'Leather' seats where the middle seat was a seat only in economy and a table when used as Business class.

Looking at the differences and the history of Business class the 'Max Bundle' offering is a business Class offering without the name. 'Max Bundle' is the one class flight business offering.

MeltingAlf

I do not see why doubt cannot be placed on OP when the same has been done to QR on this thread.

It is rather interesting you have waddled through this forum without seeing the numerous cases of people committing sins of omission, being generally dishonest of the entire thing, etc etc in trying to garner sympathy, only to be exposed later on.

It's not as if OP's replies have been any better in rubbing people the right way - opening an account on FT just to complain - then go all missing, acting all pompous and not heeding advice, withholding information until far later - if the attitude is of such I don't see why anyone else should be at the end of such treatment. We kinda made it clear QR probably isn't going to help that much unless there's something we should know other than "QR DID NOT HONOR TICKET RAGE RAGE". And to a large extent we haven't see any part of OP being forthcoming, providing more info, except for that paltry screen grab from who-knows-where that only reinforces the original idea that we kinda know quite well of, but adds nothing to the table.

The same goes to you. Barging into a thread and going off topic to smear everyone else for not supporting OP and not even providing advice is seriously real classy. Do you actually have anything of substance to add to this thread rather than picking on people?

Gaza

This was my thinking too. The QR site sees "I Class" and automatically tags it as Business, even though on the originating carrier I Class is not Business but Economy. It is not a deliberate attempt to mislead anyone and is one of those programming anomalies that can easily slip through the net and not be noticed until someone points it out.

As was pointed out earlier BA use (or at one time did use) J, C and D on domestic routes. Expedia and some other sites flagged these as Business when in fact the are simply economy as there is no Business Class on UK domestic.