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bensyd Dec 9, 2008 10:18 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack
But SYD-MEX (12 984 km) and SYD-GRU (13 387 km) look like major destinations reachable by A380.

Major by what measure?

Sorry mate. I don't think airlines pick destinations based on how far their aircraft can fly. the A380 will fly to LAX/JFK/LHR/JNB. Anything else would surprise us all. Especially when all those a380s are being outfitted with a 3 class service, and none of those destinations you have mentioned would likely have big pointy end markets, with the exception perhaps of ORD.

We can all engage in speculation but it's nothing more than that.

Traveloguy Dec 9, 2008 11:40 am


Originally Posted by bensyd (Post 10881168)
Major by what measure?

Sorry mate. I don't think airlines pick destinations based on how far their aircraft can fly. the A380 will fly to LAX/JFK/LHR/JNB. Anything else would surprise us all. Especially when all those a380s are being outfitted with a 3 class service, and none of those destinations you have mentioned would likely have big pointy end markets, with the exception perhaps of ORD.

We can all engage in speculation but it's nothing more than that.

Seconded! ^

Far too much speculation in this thread - suggest to the OP that this type of discussion is better had over on airliners.net.

chornedsnorkack Dec 9, 2008 1:18 pm


Originally Posted by bensyd (Post 10881168)
the A380 will fly to LAX/JFK/LHR/JNB. Anything else would surprise us all.

Is QaNTAS then going to fly A380 LAX-JFK?

Originally Posted by bensyd (Post 10881168)
Especially when all those a380s are being outfitted with a 3 class service

How many of the 20 QF frames shall have 4 class interior like the existing frame? And which of the 4 classes shall Qantas drop on the other frames?

serfty Dec 9, 2008 3:46 pm


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10882393)
Is QaNTAS then going to fly A380 LAX-JFK?

How many of the 20 QF frames shall have 4 class interior like the existing frame? And which of the 4 classes shall Qantas drop on the other frames?

The answers to that can really only be speculation.

My speculative answers:
  • Unlikely on a regular basis
  • Probably 4 Class only

DownUnderFlyer Dec 9, 2008 10:46 pm


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10882393)
Is QaNTAS then going to fly A380 LAX-JFK?

How many of the 20 QF frames shall have 4 class interior like the existing frame? And which of the 4 classes shall Qantas drop on the other frames?

I think bensyd just made a typo. He meant 4 class, not three. And yes, I think QF will fly the A380 LAX-JFK. But obviously I don't know.

OzTraveller Dec 9, 2008 10:59 pm

In the dark old days of the B-707, QF had a flight called the Fiesta Route SYD/PPT/MEX/NAS/BDA/LHR a few days per week. On the return the aircraft had to stop in Acapulco to refuel due to the altitude of MEX

chornedsnorkack Dec 10, 2008 3:28 am

Letīs check the parts that are not speculation.

Qantas currently flies 33 passenger 747-s. The world fleet of 6 747-400ER-s, 24 747-400 non-ERs and 3 747-300s.

QaNTAS has 20 firm orders for A380-800, and 16 options of various kinds. This is not a speculation, though there may be speculations as to whether or not those options shall be exercised. But then there may be speculations as to whether there shall be more orders.

When all 36 A380-800s shall be delivered, QaNTAS should be flying 69 doubledecker passenger planes instead of 33... destinations?

Back to firmer grounds: QaNTAS shall receive a total of 3 A380-800 frames by the end of December 2008. The plans for the fleet of 3 are not speculation, they have been well announced and QaNTAS has sold tickets to them. Extra frequencies for LAX, and Kangaroo Route.

How many A380 frames shall QaNTAS receive by end of 2009?

Has QaNTAS published any firm plans beyond 16th of January? Opening a new route takes some time to prepare.

ANstar Dec 10, 2008 3:45 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10885820)
When all 36 A380-800s shall be delivered, QaNTAS should be flying 69 doubledecker passenger planes instead of 33... destinations?.

I doubt QF will have 69 double decker aircraft as A380's WILL be REPLACING 747's, not just complementing them.


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10885820)
The plans for the fleet of 3 are not speculation, they have been well announced and QaNTAS has sold tickets to them. Extra frequencies for LAX, and Kangaroo Route..

Actually, none of the A380 services are EXTRA frequencies. They are repalcing current 747 services. In fact SYD-LAX has seen a reduction in frequencies.


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10885820)
How many A380 frames shall QaNTAS receive by end of 2009?

Has QaNTAS published any firm plans beyond 16th of January? Opening a new route takes some time to prepare.

QF should have 7 (possibly 8) A380's be the end of next year.

I would expect frames 4,5,6 to enable the current A380 routes to go daily (IE SYD-LAX QF 11/12, MEL-LAX QF 93/94 and SYD-LHR QF 31/32)

It may even require frame #7 to do that schedule which means we probably won't see any new A380 flight numbers until 2010.

bensyd Dec 10, 2008 4:02 am


Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 10885304)
I think bensyd just made a typo. He meant 4 class, not three.

Yes I did. Whoops :o

DownUnderFlyer Dec 10, 2008 4:32 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10885820)
When all 36 A380-800s shall be delivered, QaNTAS should be flying 69 doubledecker passenger planes instead of 33... destinations?

The 747s are showing their age so unlikely that QF will keep them for too long.
I honestly don't think will use the A380s for new routes any time soon. If QF (or JQ!) opens new routes, then my bet is they will do this with the 787s. Very long range and low running costs. And profitable even on smaller routes.

chornedsnorkack Dec 10, 2008 6:51 am


Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 10885922)
The 747s are showing their age so unlikely that QF will keep them for too long.

QF still has 747-338s.

When are any of the existing 33 747s due to be withdrawn from service?

Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 10885922)
I honestly don't think will use the A380s for new routes any time soon. If QF (or JQ!) opens new routes, then my bet is they will do this with the 787s. Very long range and low running costs.

It remains to be seen if and when QF or anybody gets any Dreamliners, and what its range and running costs shall be. Whereas A380-800 is a known entity, has been in service for over a year and test flying for three ad half years... and it would also be relatively easy to speculate on the performance of plausible A380 derivatives.

WRCSolberg Dec 10, 2008 7:00 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10886229)
QF still has 747-338s.

When are any of the existing 33 747s due to be withdrawn from service?


It remains to be seen if and when QF or anybody gets any Dreamliners, and what its range and running costs shall be. Whereas A380-800 is a known entity, has been in service for over a year and test flying for three ad half years... and it would also be relatively easy to speculate on the performance of plausible A380 derivatives.

The 743s were supposed to be gone from the fleet by the end of this year, though that seems to be in flux as they were supposed to be gone earlier than that originally. I think the latest 380 delay may have something to do with that. I don't think there's a timetable, at least announced publicly, for 744 retirements.

I highly doubt QF will be opening any new routes with the 388 for some time to come. It's looking to be more of a 1:1 replacement for the 744 and there are plenty of 744 routes that could upgauge to a 380 before opening new routes. The 380 is a lot of airplane to be starting a new route with.

chornedsnorkack Dec 10, 2008 7:25 am


Originally Posted by WRCSolberg (Post 10886261)
The 743s were supposed to be gone from the fleet by the end of this year, though that seems to be in flux as they were supposed to be gone earlier than that originally. I think the latest 380 delay may have something to do with that.

Ah yes. Both have exactly 450 seat total, right?

bensyd Dec 10, 2008 10:43 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10886229)
It remains to be seen if and when QF or anybody gets any Dreamliners, and what its range and running costs shall be. Whereas A380-800 is a known entity, has been in service for over a year and test flying for three ad half years... and it would also be relatively easy to speculate on the performance of plausible A380 derivatives.

Again same point I made earlier. Just because an aircraft can fly x miles doesn't mean that there is a market for an airline to fly that route. You have been offered a fairly comprehensive set of responses, all of which run in the same vein of thinking: QF will not be implementing the 380 on any new routes.

It's always nice to speculate, but I think the answer here is pretty clear. We can debate aircraft range, wingspan, flap size etc as a cue to possible routes, but at the end of the day money makes flight possible and unless you live in a cave you would have noticed there ain't much around these days.

docbert Dec 10, 2008 11:56 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 10876081)
Qantas does have SYD-SCL now. As QF gets more A380-s (which have a longer range than B747-400ER, let alone the rest of 747 fleet), what would be the next Latin American destinations? EZE? GRU?

Are any of those going to be A380 ready anytime soon?

(Ignoring the fact that the demand to any of those places wouldn't warrant an A380 anyway)


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