AAdv changes - anyone jumping ship?
 

Given the new changes (and unlike other airline's 'enhancement' these actually are...) is anyone considering jumping from QFF to AAdv?

I did a quick back of the envelope calculation given that my only certain travel this year is DONE4, on the same routing as I earn WP I still won't get EXP even with the J 1.5 q-points...

"I did a quick back of the envelope calculation given that my only certain travel this year is DONE4, on the same routing as I earn WP I still won't get EXP even with the J 1.5 q-points..."

Especially since J only gives 1.25 q points

Dave

Dave

Sorry for some reason the link did not publish. This link -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum71/HTML/019930.html

is discussion of the newly announced AAdv changes, which include 1.5 q-points for J.



[This message has been edited by alect (edited Dec 16, 2003).]

Ah. Even at 1.5, it still requires nearly 67,000 miles travel in J/F to get AAs top tier status whilst it's relatively a walk in the park to get QF Platinum with revenue J/F travel

Dave

The 1.5 q-points for business is good for me particularly since most BA, CX & QF routes only have J or Y. I agree that it is still much easier to qualify for QF elite on premium fares. I think overall the changes are a big thumbs up for AA's elite and unlike QF they didn't change any of the qualification criteria for upgrades. From my point of view it should make it a bit easier to qualify for top tier in both programs.

Actually, just did some rough calc's of my own and was quite surprised at how close the two programs are for premium travel qualification on certain routes. Let's say someone fly's J class between SYD-LAX, to requalify for QF Platinum takes 4 round trips (well 3.75, but you can't really do 3/4's of LAX-SYD! - works out as 1280 SC's). To qualify AA EXP takes 4.5 (i.e. 4 round trips and a single one-way - works out as approx. 67,500 miles). I think this gets less favorable when you compare shorter sectors given the large mileage bandwidth QF allocates for each tier of SC (e.g. 60 SC's for 1001-2700 miles).

(Edited to fix up calculations).

[This message has been edited by mgm (edited Dec 16, 2003).]

"unlike QF they didn't change any of the qualification criteria for upgrades."

Yeah well, to start with AA upgrades are for domestic only and 1st on AA domestic is (a) pretty cruddy and (b) should be renamed upgrade class anyway

Dave

Ah, but you forget that for EXP you get 8 system wide upgrade certs. Also, using my example the QF member would get 2 upgrade credits. The AA member would get 24 North America electronic upgrades in addtion to the system wide certs. I'd rather travel in upgraded J or F on AA than QF economy any day, which in my example I could do more often than I could on QF.

"I think this gets less favorable when you compare shorter sectors "

Indeed it does. If based on , say SYD-MEL in business class, it takes 40 sectors to attain the 1200 points to renew Platinum status (40 sectors * 30 SCs = 1200). With the AA scheme it would take about 152 sectors in business class ( 439 miles + 50% = 659 qpoints per sector... 100000/659 = 151.7 flights required )

Comparing cheapie economy, it takes 120 sectors to get Platinum on QF compared with 200 to get Executive Platinum on AA

Also, the comparisons get more marked if you travel ( as is quite common ) a mix of premium class travel with cheap economy since the qpoints for cheapie economy are only 0.5 on AAs scheme

Comapring other premium long distance travel. e.g. MAN-LHR (J) LHR-SIN (F) SIN-SYD (F) SYD-MEL (J) MEL-ADL (J)

SCs earned on QF would be 30+240+150+30+30 = 480. A round trip would earn 960 SCs which only leaves 240 to renew Platinum . Even a MAN-LHR-BOS return in J would earn 260.

If the same trips were done crediting to AA

MAN-LHR = 500
LHR-SIN = 6760 * 1.5 = 10140
SIN-SYD = 3910 * 1.5 = 5870
SYD-MEL = 439 * 1.5 = 656
MEL-ADL = 398 * 1.5 = 597

Total one way = 17,763 qpoints
round trip 35,526

MAN-LHR = 500
LHR-BOS = 3250 * 1.5 = 4875

total one way = 5375
round trip = 10,750

Add this to the previous total and qpoints will be 46,276 which would not even be enough to renew AA Platinum status. Even repeating the whole itinery above would still leave a shortfall of 7448.

Dave

"Ah, but you forget that for EXP you get 8 system wide upgrade certs."

True, but their international system isnt exactly wide.

Also remember that QF Gold / Platinum get lounge access which AA Platinums / Executive Platinums do not when travelling "domestically" in America ( using AAs extremely screwed up idea of what international means )

"Also, using my example the QF member would get 2 upgrade credits. The AA member would get 24 North America electronic upgrades in addtion to the system wide certs. I'd rather travel in upgraded J or F on AA than QF economy any day, which in my example I could do more often than I could on QF."

Well, now we are into the argument of the Usian idea of devaluing your premium product so much that few people will ever pay the excessively overpriced fares quoted for the laughably named "First Class". Personally, I think that setting up a system to ensure that people will not buy a premium product since they will get it for free is not a good business move and the idea seems to be limited to the 3rd world of airline travel.

Different schemes suit different people

Dave

[This message has been edited by Dave Noble (edited Dec 16, 2003).]

alect and others, this was just cross-posted in my USA trip thread, but thought this would be much more relevant (and possibly read quicker by more posters):

QF WP is WP again next year (thanks to lots of flying QF again this year http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif) and I still have 3 months to go on my year.

Now that my trip is not going to count for re-qual next year, looking at it from a purely points perspective, I'm wondering whether I now should throw all my AA/AS sectors (as well as the BNE/AKL and AKL/SYD/BNE QF sectors) into my AA account and at least go for AA Gold Challenge (I only need less than 500 miles in addition to AA/AS sectors, so SYD/BNE could do it).

Assuming that I am aware I won't be getting the SC's, FFP's and 100% Plat bonus on those sectors (that's why I'm looking at the smaller ones to throw in), perhaps the fact of "some" status on AA in the future might be worthwhile....

What do you think??

see my comments in your thread......

QF WP, remember that you can only take the "challenge" once. So if you make AA Gold or Plat this year due to the challenge, you must put enough travel towards your AA account next year in order to retain it. What enefit do you get from making AA Gold (or even Plat) this year and being moved to AA Nothing (and Gold is basically nothing in AA) next year?

Appart from the new AA upgrade certs for reaching Plat (do you get any for making the Gold lack-of-chalenge?) that can only be used for future AA domestic flights, is there much point to it?

There is zero value to have AA Gold or Platinum status if you already have Emerald on another OW carrier. That said, AA miles are worth considerably more than QF miles. For my use of miles over the past year it works out to 2.3 QF miles = 1 AA mile. This ratio will be different for everyone, due to the break points in the various plans -- it all depends on what you use the miles for, and in fact there are some redemptions where QF is worth more than AA. There are many differences between the rules (an amazing number for airlines in an alliance; even the ONEWORLD awards offered by AA and QF have different rules, with the AA rules being better). These rule differences increase the value of AA miles. But my own opinion is that EXP status is really mandatory to make AA worthwhile (however I also think the QF plan is only good if WP, and even then is marginal due to having far too many WPs). An interesting strategy for someone doing one RTW per year is to alternate between AA and QF plans, making top-tier in each plan in alternating years. This would seem to significantly increase the benefit of being in just one of the plans. The AA plan changes announced today makes this fairly easy to do.

I knew I could rely on alect, NM and number_6to reply here - even got a phone call from Dave Noble.

To reiternate my ithinking:

As NM and number_6 pointed out, it barely gives me status (that'll I'll lose anyway, not expected to travel much in USA next couple of years, what with possible family planned, I won't be allowed to travel http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif)- in fact, I'm not worried about status at all. I'm actually looking at maximising my FF points, so we can make most use .

Dave Noble brought up an interesting option. Put my outbound sectors on QF program (BNE/LAX/JFK), then put my post 1 Jan USA/inbound sectors (JFK/LAX/LAS/SEA/GEG/SEA/LAX/AKL/SYD/BNE)into AA program, thus getting 1.5 miles/q-points (all in B class) (see 2004 AAdvantage Chart) on all sectors other than LAX/LAS (in L class, getting 0.5).

What I am losing in QF Plat bonus points on those sectors, I'll make up on the bonus for the last flight which would make me Plat (by my calcs, would be LAX/AKL) and lesser points for Award flights within Aust/NZ. It's pretty much a line ball...hey, if I get some SWU's and can't use them, then I can always swap them on Coupon Connection...

After all, using my WP card I'll still get into AC's/QP's, First Class check-in line (then give them the AA card to credit flights/points)...