OneWorld award - definition of "stopover"
 

Anyone out there able to help?

Itinerary planned is as follows (all in J - well, U actually):

SYD-LAX QF
LAX-NYC surface (mileage counts, but one stopver - LAX - is counted, rather than two - LAX/NYC)
JFK-LHR BA
LHR-WAW BA
WAW-LON surface (milage counts, this is where it becomes sticky)
LHR-HKG CX
HKG-SYD QF

Now, the OneWorld award allows you five stopovers - as far as I can tell, they will be LAX, LON, WAW and HKG.

BUT, it also says that you can only stopover once in each city. Since I am surfacing from WAW to LON, how will they treat LON? Will they regard it as a second stopover, since I will be recommencing air travel from there?

If they do, can I get around it by perhaps flying CDG-LGW and then LHR-HKG?

I was intending on doing a fair bit of rail travel around Europe, along with some land tours, finishing with EuroStar from Gare du Nord to Waterloo, but if I have to fly it, then I will. No stay in London is necessary before the LHR-HKG flights.

Any pointers?

And lastly, will it make any difference doing LHR-HKG on a QF/BA award?

The reason why WAW is there is that I particularly wish to visit some WWII sites, including Auschwitz/Birkenau, and Warsaw will be a good jumping off point to start this.

Dave

[This message has been edited by thadocta (edited 05-04-2003).]

I've always understood the rule to mean WAW would be your stopover.

If you are forced to go the CDG option then make sure you get on a French TGV for the speed factor since you are missing Eurostar.

sounds like a nic e trip how many miles did this cost you?

I suspect that a surface sector is called ONE stopover (not two).

Do you REALLY need the "pleasure" (and cost) of getting from LGW to LHR especially since BA no longer give out the free tickets if connecting to/from BA longhaul.

Just had a thought - CDG-HKG on CX is an option

If you are stuck with two stopovers in London, you can substitute Manchester (e.g. fly US-MAN) as a way to eliminate one LHR stop. Excellent air/train service from MAN to London if you need to get to London, otherwise decent MAN to Europe connnections. Plus Manchester is a surprisingly nice city in its own right and the airport is very efficient. Your other option is to fly CX to HKG from one of their other gateways (FRA, FCO, CDG, ZRH).

"Excellent train service from Manchester to London"... you must've been v lucky....

Under IATA rulings, 2.1.9.2 defines an open jaw stopover as follows:
- When one or more portions of travel are by surface transportation, the last point of arrival by air and the first point of departure by air on each surface break count together as one stopover if the time interval between arrival and departure of the air segments constitutes a stopover as defined in 2.1.9. [More than 24 hours].
Then it further clarifies:
- Where a specific routing or fare permits stopovers at named points, both points must permit stopovers as defined in the fare rule or by limitations.

In other words - you may come undone!!

I know with Star itineraries I was doing when AN was still around, what you are proposing was a no-no. The point of departure and point of arrival although considered as one combined stopover, are still counted individually under stopover rules - which does make sense as you have to count both Warsaw and London as stopover cities, but it's only one stopover.

Cheers.

I want about a week in the UK both before and after I do Europe - so that was the reason I planned it that way.

Have resolved the matter, will post a followup shortly.

Dave

I haven't had a problem when travelling in the UK by train, although to be fair, I am always travelling on BritRail Passes, valid on any train, any operator, any time of the day, etc., so I don't have to contend with the conditions imposed by the myriad of TOC's on different fare types, etc.

Whilst train travel will always be subject to the vagaries of the weather (we see it in SYD all the time) I have generally found the UK rail system to be OK, if somewhat exorbitantly priced (again though, easy enough to get around if visiting) - an example is London Euston - Liverpool (where my aunt lives, and where I usually base myself) - GBP125 for a first class single, for a four hour trip?

To respond to the post, the WCML is in the process of being upgraded at the moment, to allow Vermin Trains and their new Pendolini (I presume this is the plural) to operate at the appropriate speeds. Some disruption is bound to occur during this sort of massive route modernisation.

Overall though, it is not a bad service, and particularly since MML have started Manchester - St. Pancras services, the options just get better.

Dave

Indeed I havem I have indeed. Spoke to them last night when I tried to book it, and they confirmed that LON will count as two stopovers, which is not allowed.

Working on a reroute now, but since I base myself in Liverpool anyway, should not be a problem to fly into MAN and out of LHR.

Dave