3 QF 744s at LAX
 

The last few times I've landed on the North runway at LAX I've noticed 3 QF 744s parked out of the way, West of the int'l terminal.

Looking at the schedules, all four of the arrivals from Australia occur between 7:10 and 10:45am. The departures don't start until 9:30pm, with the last one being at 11:40. This seems like a huge amount of time to have three planes sitting around unused everyday. Maybe there's no solution, as quicker turnarounds would result in arrivals in Australia in the middle of the night, but aren't people's body clocks screwy after those flights regardless of when they arrive?

Since it's 3 planes and not 4, I presume that the fourth is making a return trip to JFK during the day before it returns to SYD.

I just thought it was interesting (and cool) to see so many big QF birds in one spot so far from Australia. Does this happen anywhere else? LHR?

I am just guessing here but I think this is probably due to to curfue in effect in Australia (planes can't land at SYD in the late evening and early morning) than peoples body clocks. The SFO-SYD and LAX-SYD UA flights also leave late evening to get to Sydney first thing, then turn around in around 4 hours....

Even more impressive is AirNZ with 4 planes at LAX (and I've seen 5 QF 747s on the ground at LAX in the past, though not 744s). I've actually seen 3 ANZ planes at a gate in their terminal (surprised they could get that many gates, but they don't use the International terminal). The AirNZ solution to this problem is to fly the trans-pacific planes on to Europe.

QF has had many attempts to use those planes during the day, but it has never been economical (they used to fly to SFO, for example). And they can't use the down time for servicing, either. There is a similar waste at LHR. Part of the business case for the Supersonic Cruiser by Boeing is avoiding some of this downtime (by cutting 2 hours from the flying time they can do an extra flight each day, sort of). Crew staffing and landing cycles are a big impediment to using those 744s for short-haul. It does seem to be a big opportunity for someone with a brilliant solution.

AndrewCX is right about Sydney curfew. Planes cannot land or take off between 10.45pm and 6am (not too sure about the morning start) since they fly over suburban areas.

To fly these planes on to Europe would really be an excellent idea.

As of 1:26PM on Sunday (today), when I went through LAX there were three Qantas 744's and three Air NZ 744's. All three Qantas jets were chillin off by themselves. Alongside were two NZ's, and the third NZ was just touching down. I was wondering the same thing though, as the original poster, as we taxi'd by.

Great minds think alike! Always see these when UA touches down .. but that is morning in LAX?

My UAL flight from AKL (the little ol' 777) touched down at 11:20ishAM, and the AZ flight that left at 4:00PM from AKL touches down at 9AMish, while the 8PM-ish flight touches down around 1:20 (or did today). I was taxing on my 1:21PM flight to SEA.

The solution is NOT to fly to Sydney but BNE or MEL or Cairns

Despite what people in Sydney think (including QF management) there are Australians in other places in this vast land who go to the USA. We don't all live in SYD



[This message has been edited by Mwenenzi (edited 06-24-2002).]

Its also got a huge amount to do with the connecting schedules both at point of origin and destination. Much easier to make connections ex SYD/MEL after arriving reasonably early in the morning. Also probably easier for people throughout the United States to get to LAX for an evening departure.

But 4 times more folks so than do in BNE. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

It is the universal hub and spoke airline system.

You can't fly KLM from Frankfurt to Paris unless you go via AMS. Or United from Miami to SEattle unless you go through a major hub.

etc. etc.

As has been mentioned, it is all about timing. Unfortunately it takes more than 12 hours to fly over the Pacific and turn a plane around.

In order to make connections out of LAX, the flights from Australia/NZ must arrive reasonably early in the morning (7-10am). And in order to arrive at that time, they have to leave Australia/NZ by mid afternoon, also allowing connections before the long haul.

If they turned around at, say midday from LAX, they would be arriving back in (for example) Sydney about 7:30pm, too late for any domestic connections. The old QF8 used to fly at these times, but was the least well patronised of the 3 daily flights LAX-SYD, and hence the first removed when things slowed down.

So once you go into LAX mid afternoon, you hit the Sydney curfew and people don't want to arrive at 2am in Melbourne or Aukland. This restricts LAX departures to late evening (after about 9:30pm) and people don't want to be leaving an airport much after midnight. Hence the trans-Pacific flights all leave in about a 2.5 hour window.

I would love to see QF continue on to LHR from LAX and complete the circle once again as they did in the days of old (with the Connie - did they ever do it with the 707's?). But I am sure it is to do with slots and route rights. Air NZ don't do LHR-AKL via Asia, so LAX-LHR is their only forray into Europe.

Appart from New York, which is still only operating 3 times a week, there isn't anywhere else QF can send these aircraft during their sleep hours. And they have to get the NY flight out fairly early in the day (9:05am) in order to turn around in NY and get back to LAX for the flight home, which means they can't pool passengers from AKL to NY since the AKL flight doesn't arrive until 10:45 (similarly the second SYD flight - QF11).

It would be interesting to see QF send one over to DFW as a lead-in to the new 744-ER's that are coming.

By the way, the first of the 744-ER's has rolled off the Boeing assembly line. It will eventually be the second -ER to be delivered to QF after it is used for some systems testing. At least with the 744-ER spending another few hours in the air each way, it will also mean it spends less hours on the ground awaiting more self-loading cargo at DFW for the flight home.

I really MUST say I enjoy reading your posts NM. Rather definitive!

Cheers,

------------------
Glen,
QFAA

A little off topic per se, but I for one used to love the "day flight" option to SYD. If I recall it left LAX at about 11am and arrived in SYD at about 8pm the next day (or something like that I'm always a little foggy after that flight). I loved being able to make it to my SYD hotel by about 10pm, have a late meal and then fall into bed for 6-7 hours. Although I can sleep very well on the "night flights" in F, I find it difficult in J (and I won't even consider coach). I wish they would bring the day flight back, although I am happy enough that they have brought back (limited) the JFK connection at least. Transcon in QF F is so much better than AA P.

Very well written NM! You have good insight into airline things.

I also agree with FlyLots about the day flight. I would love to arrive in SYD in the evening to go to bed and sleep off my jetlag during the night. Just as I would love to arrive at LAX in the evening and not early morning.

I don't know why qantas doesn't send the
planes to Toronto. They could pick up
alot of their connecting traffic themselves.