Virgin challenges Qantas on US route
 

Hmmmmmm...
 

I am in two minds about this development. On the one hand I guess it's good to see increased competition on this route, and it could be a breath of fresh air to see what the Virgin approach may be.

On the other hand I am aghast at the idea of enduring a low cost carrier environment for a 14 hour flight. Unlike some other FTers I don't travel business class much at all - and it's a scary thought to be sandwiched (or should that be shoehorned) into a seat and having to buy refreshments, rent a blanket and pillow, drop a coin in the slot for movies etc....

But then, presumably the ticket price would compensate.

Hmmmmmm.....

Some thoughts here:

• The current bilateral only allows for a newcomer to the route to have four flights per week, for the first twelve months. This seems to have been waived for JQi, but this *might* be as a result of QF transferring some of theiir existing rights to JQi, not sure about that one.
• DJ is not a LCC, they are a "New World Carrier" - I doubt that any SYD-LAX flights would conform with the SYD-MEL model. Things would be different, you can guarantee it.
• If DJ enters the SYD-LAX route, you can bet your asre (letters transposed) that QF would respond aggressively - perhaps by again looking at SYD-DFW (or perhaps SYD-AKL-DFW) - DFW would be a much better US hub, leaving SYD-LAX to ONE 380, the rest routing via DFW.

Interesting times ahead.

Dave

(I really HATE quoting myself).

As much as I hate adopting Godfrey-speak, I think that this is what DJ has become. They have devolved away from the LCC model, but have not evolved into a legacy carrier. (Using the normally accepted definitions of each of these models).

So I think that what DJ will offer trans-Pacific will be radically different to what is currently offered, AS WELL AS being radically different to what DJ currently offered ona SYD-BNE flight. I am sure that it will be acceptable to the masses (which excludes most of us).

Dave

I'd expect the Virgin Pacific operation to be more like VS than DJ in terms of service.amenities etc

Correct, I recall a media article many months ago quoting a DJ spokesperson saying "it will be nothing like exisiting travel to the US"

That could mean many things, from in-flight massages, more bar areas, premium economy (only Air NZ has that, and every article I read only ever mentions Qantas and United flying to the US)

It definately won't be 30-31 inch seat pitch nor a typical LCC.

If they link the US flights to Velocity Rewards imagine the points you would get for Mel-USA flights :) :) :) :) Many free flights in Aus as a result!

I wonder what type of aircraft are they going to use? :confused: and where are they gonna source it from? The most important question would be when are they planning to start flying?

I know there are lots of question, but can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks!

Will it definitely be DJ operated or it will be just using VS metal? Just a continuation of VS201?

My thought exactly. Where are they going to come up with the metal?

It is a shoe-in that DJ will get this IMHO.

CO and NW and AA have rights to SYD - they choose not to use them AFAIK. (All 3 used to of course.)

Virgin will in essence be a true round the world airline if this comes off as Virgin Atlantic fly LHR-HKG-SYD

Where will they get the panes? The Arizona desert parking lot is covered with 747/400s that have not flown for years.

Many are still in UA livery in fact. :)

I doubt it would be VS. VS being a non-Australian company would face the same barriers that SQ is having in getting SYD-LAX rights.

Would have to be DJ or a subsidiary. (i.e. such as Pacific Blue now is.)

I would think that the plane would have to be separate to Virgin Blue as the Virgin name cannot be used internationally.

The plane I would guess would be fitted out similar to that of Virgin Atlantic giving Aus-USA travel on an aircraft with premium economy. Air New Zealand have their business premiere fitted out similar to Virgin Atlantic, there might be some restrictions on what a new carrier could use. Maybe the plane might be an ex VS plane.

VS could codeshare giving VS around the world flight number.

It will certainly bring the airfare prices down. :cool:

Virgin Pacific or whatever name they settle on are looking at different aircraft at the moment.

Rumors are either the 777/A340 or the 787.

They want to start flying in 2008, so that pretty much rules out the 787 for the short term.

Also the 777 may have ETOPS restrictions from say Syd-Sfo ??

The A340-600 is probably going to be it in my opinion

Also previously Virgin Blue, have mentioned that the experince will be "Nothing like that in offer currently" so expect heaps of premium economy and MAYBE business class. But probably IFE in each seat, maybe massages, nice bar area for ALL Passengers etc ?

No delivery slots for any of these aircraft between now and 2008, so they would have to buy used (maybe the 3 CX A346s that are coming off-lease in a few months, which CX is very unhappy with)?

Obviously all twins need ETOPS rating of 180 or 207 for trans-pacific use, but hasn't UA operated 777s on SFO-SYD already (or is it only ex-LAX?). I haven't checked the charts but would think the ETOPS routing out of SFO and LAX is pretty much identical. Of course getting ETOPS qualified for a brand-new airline is tough and would probably delay start of operations by many months, so I agree that most likely is A346 for this route. As for 744s stacked up in the AZ desert, is this really true? There is a hot market for 744s that are still flyable right now (both for freighter conversion and for pax use), with several airlines having stated that they simply cannot find any used ones "in good condition and at a good price". After the QF "3 ugly sisters" fiasco there is probably some concern about getting 744s in the right condition prior to purchase.