qasr

My Perspective

Being a SG for 5 years was a rewarding experience. I am a Aussie who moved to London for 2 years, then to Hong Kong briefly and now I live in Boston, USA. I initially had two RTW J fares per year included in my contract in London, but never quite made it to WP, or Gold as it was then. I now travel mostly between home (SYD) and LHR/BOS on RTW tickets in Y on my own money and am always looking for the best deal on RTW and circle pacific fares.

The 250 SC per UC system was rewarding as a SG, I saved up about 2 years of revenue flying to get my SYD-LHR Y-J upgrade. When this changed to 450, I felt ripped off. It was now about 4 years of revenue SG to get a one-way upgrade from SYD-LHR. This was roughly the time when the *A status match program was running in the UK. I had a very good friend who was UA elite and was whispering about beauies of 6 confirmed upgrades a year along with proper treatment for their elite flyers. Combine these facts with two particularly poor QF experiences with abysmal customer service followup, it led to this loyal QF flyer to consider jumping ship to UA. What I have to present below is a guide to why I decided to move to UA and what the differences are for a QF SG/WP and a UA 1P/1K.

The Basics

All of you on the QF board know SC's are how you earn elite status. UA uses Elite Qualifying Miles (EQM's), or Elite Qualifying Segments (EQS's) to determine your status in the United Mileage Plus Program. There are three Elite levels available by flying a certian amount of EQM's. They are:

• Premier - 25,000 EQM's or 30 EQS's required to qualify. Star Alliance Silver level, roughly equivalent to QF Silver. Known as 2P status in the UA board, and to UA CSR's.
• Premier Executive - 50,000 EQM's or 60 EQS's required to qualify. Star Alliance Gold level, roughly equivalent to QF Gold. Known as 1P status in the UA board, and to UA CSR's.
• Premier Executive 1K - 100,000 EQM's or 100 EQS's required to qualify. Star Alliance Gold level, roughly Equivalent to QF Platinum. Known as 1K status in the UA board, and to UA CSR's.

There is an additional status level which is invitation only and based on revenue contributed to UA over a calendar year, this is the United Global Services level and supposedly represents the top 1% of spenders on UA. It is somewhat similar to Chairmans Lounge level on QF. The low end of revenue that UA is looking for is around US$40k, but it does depend on what fares you are buying--full fare First and Business class is obviously the target market. See this thread for more info.

An EQM is based on actual flight miles and multiplied for certain cabins and certain fare classes. All Economy flights on UA will earn a minimum of 1 EQM per flight mile. Full fare (Y,B) economy, Business class (C,D,Z) and First class (F,A,P) fares all earn a 1.5 multplier to the EQM's. An Elite Qualifying Segment is obviously a single flight segment. "Direct" flights with a stop will earn only 1 segment if it stops but keeps the same flight number, ala QF. Segments are also multiplied by 1.5 for the above listed fare classes.

The Qualifying period for UA status is done on a calendar year, unlike QF. Therefore, all flights taken from January 1 to December 31 are used to determine your status for the following year and the remainder of the current year if you attain the higher status level early. Status is gained for a minimum 14 months since it is valid until the end of Febuary AFTER you qualified. It is a little confusing here is an example:Elite Status Benefits

Following is a brief description of each benefit available to each elite level. I'll go into more detail of what each benefit means later.

Premier
Also known as 2P. Equivalent to Star Alliance Silver and is fairly similar to QF Silver. Benefits are:

• 25% Mileage bonus for United, United Express, Ted Flights & Lufthansa (LH) transatlantic flights.
• Economy Plus (E+) seating at no additional charge if available. Can be reserved at time of booking.
• Priority Check-in, Priority Boarding, Priority Waitlisitng, Priority phone reservations and MP number.
• 500 Mile (US) Domestic Upgrades. You are awarded 4 electronic upgrades into your MP account for every 10,000 miles flown on United, United Express and Ted.
• Star Alliance Silver benefits: Priority standby where allowed by law and Priority waitlisting on any *A flight where your fare class is sold out.

• QF Silver/OW Ruby allows for Business Class check-in. This is the only absent benefit of Star Silver. If you are traveling on United though, you can check-in at the Business class counters.

UA Premier Pros:

• Economy Plus Seating is SO much better compared to regular Y on a SYD-LAX/SFO. It is only 4 inches on extra seat pitch, but it makes a world of difference if you are over 5'10" or so.
• Freebie Domestic Upgrades are nice, but are useless unless you end up doing US domestic legs, or trips from the US to the Caribbean. More on these later.

Premier Executive
Also known as 1P. Equivalent to Star Alliance Gold and is comparable to QF Gold. Benefits are:

• All Benefits of Premier, plus...
• 100% Mileage Bonus for United, United Express and Ted Flights. As well as Lufthansa (LH) transatlantic flights.
• Reservation of exit-row seats in advance. This is an unpublished benefit.
• Extra Baggage Allowance, 1 extra piece.
• Discounted Red Carpet Club membership. This is UA’s equivalent to the Qantas Pub, but is only necessary for access if on a purely US domestic Itineary.
• 500-mile upgrades clear sooner than Premier members.
• Star Alliance Gold benefits: Lounge Access*, Priority check-in at any Star Gold labelled (Usually Business Class) check-in line, Extra baggage allowance-1 extra piece on most *Airlines, but it does vary.

QF Gold Pros:

• Lounge Access anywhere, including purely US domestic Itinearies.

UA Premier Executive Pros:

• 100% Mileage Bonus, compared to 50% on QF.
• E+ Seating, while you're still stuck in regular WHY on QF.

Premier Executive 1K
Also known as 1K.
This is the top tier Mileage Plus elite level and so is similar to QF Platinum in that way. However the benefits are quite different.

• All benefits of Premier Executive, plus...
• Six System Wide Upgrades each year! (SWU's). This is a big differentiator, and I will go into more detail later.
• Up to 8 "Confirmed Regional Upgrades". These are good anywhere in the US, and from the US to Hawaii & Carribean and can be confirmed at booking time. You earn 2 for each quarter you fly on 10,000 miles on UA metal.
• Exclusive Economy award inventory reserved for only 1K members.
• 1K Only website with 1K only competitions and give aways. Also, the "1K Voice" customer support section which allows 1K members to "voice" disapproval of treatment of services offered etc.
• Guaranteed seat on full or oversold flights up to 6 hours before departure. Must be purchased in Full fare economy and not available for C/F.
• Star Gold Benefits ala Premier Executive.

QF Platinum Pros:

• First Class check-in and Lounge access. All *A First class lounges are exclusively for passengers with a First class boarding pass. However a F boarding pass allows you access to any *A First class lounge.
• Access to LHR Arrivals lounge when traveling in ANY class of service. This is only available to paid or award C and F ticketed travelers on UA. They keep the Y->C upgrade riff-raff out, but many have been successful in mooching their way in. If you are really desperate you can get in for US$50.
• No recognition above 1P’s when not on United, you are lumped in with all the *Gold’s. FWIW, I have found *G to be treated MUCH better than I ever was as a OW Sapphire.

UA Premier Executive 1K Pros:

• Can you say UPGRADES UPGRADES UPGRADES? The six system wides are exactly what they look like, SYSTEM WIDE. Probably the best value for an Australian based member would be SYD-LHR the long way around, via LAX or SFO. Only one SWU would be needed each direction, so as a 1K you can upgrade 3 SYD-LHR return trips (Y->C, or C->F) per year! I'll go into more details about these later as well.
• Confirmed regionals are nice as you can confirm the upgrade at booking, unlike the 500 milers. From the east coast to Hawaii, or the west coast to the carribean, they represent incredible value. You can turn these into more SWU’s if you know how, see below.
• Yep, you’re still stuck in QF WHY

Upgrades

There are 4 types of ways to upgrade on United, 500 milers (e500’s), Confirmed Regional (CR-1, nee HK-49), System Wide Upgrades and regular miles. UA allows one class upgrades only, although the elusive double-upgrade has been found by some lucky folk.

System Wide Upgrades

Abbreviated to SWU and awarded to 1K members 6 per year, although recently it was announced that you can earn 2 extra for every 50,000 EQM’s (or for every 25k this year only) you fly over the 100,000 needed for 1K membership. Typically used to upgrade internationally, on as many segments as you are booked on in “one day”. The definition of a day is pretty lax however. Pretty much anything one way trip is OK, SYD-LAX-SFO-SEA-ORD-JFK-LHR for example would only be one SWU assuming you do not stop in one city for more than 24 hours. SWU's are transferrable.

They can only be used in W class or higher for Y->C upgrades. This excludes only the cheapest of the cheap classes, S and T. Think Red e-deals. United has “e-fares” to international destinations which are roughly half the discounted economy price, published every week for departure in a week, to off-peak/low-load destinations. e.g. LAX-SYD return for US$478 was an e-fare a few weeks back. These are usually booked in S or T classes. There are a lot of domestic US flights booked in S and T, but you wouldn’t use a SWU for a domestic leg, right? Upgrading from C->F is possible from C or D class, but not the deep discounted Z class. My recent A$2200 SYD-BOS-LHR-BOS-SYD circle pacific fare was an “unpublished fare” from my TA in Sydney and was booked in Q class (2 higher than the minimum W needed).

SWU’s can also be used on Lufthansa flights as well. You have to call united and ask them to print out a hard copy. They are only on a standby basis, so you hand it to the check-in agent and they will clear you right then and there if the flight isn’t full. Otherwise the gate agent will take it, if you clear the upgrade.

Mileage Upgrades

These are incredible value, and really set UA apart from QF. They are available to members of any status with enough points and are confirmed at booking, pending availability. If there is no availability, then you go on a waitlist which clears based on status. They are only available to those on fares in Y,B,M,H class in economy, or C and D in Business Class. The upgradeable economy classes is fairly restrictive, but that is a reason why they are cheap. Also, a Star RTW ticket is booked in either B or H class, depending on the total mileage. In this case, a flight between the US and Australia can be upgraded for 15k (Y or B class), or 30k (M or H class) each way. The full chart is available here.

Much cheaper than QF International Upgrades? Yep! Confirmed in advance? Yep! However, QF does allow upgrading from lower fares, but unless you are a Platinum, I imagine this is nothing but a pipe dream anyway. Anyone care to guess how QF will determine which WP’s to upgrade first? I’d bet the farm it will be by fare class .

Upgrades are also possible on Lufthansa again for 30k miles, you must call UA and ask them to print a voucher for you which will be on a standby basis just like a SWU.

SWU’s are also typically given to people involuntarily downgraded from Business to Economy, or First to Business on international flights as a token gift in addition to the refund of the fare difference.

Confirmed Regional Upgrades

I doubt these would be of too much interest to QF members thinking of changing to UA, but I will mention them here for completeness. Also note that many people in the Coupon Connection are willing to part with their SWU’s at the rate of 1 SWU for 2 CR1’s. If you trade all the CR1’s you get as a 1K at this rate, you would now have 10 SWU’s per year. ^

Two CR1’s are awarded to 1K’s who fly 10,000 miles in a quarter, each quarter, making the maximum be 8 per year. They can be used on flights in the US, and between the US and the Carribean/Hawaii. They are confirmed at booking time, as the name suggests, pending availability. CR1’s are essentially a SWU for “Region 1” which is the areas mentioned above and can be used for any number of sectors. These are transferrable.

Electronic 500 mile upgrades

Known as e500’s and 500milers, these are practically the same as CR1’s, except they are not confirmed at booking time and are cleared on a standby basis depending on status. Every member with status earns 4 for every 10000 miles flown on UA metal. Non-status members can purchase these in packs of 4 for $325 each. Elites get a discount if they want to buy them--4 for $200. e500's are NOT transferrable.

UA uses the concept of “upgrade windows” which allow higher status members to clear further from departure:

• UGS members clear the list at 120 hours before departure.
• 1K members clear the list at 100 hours before departure.
• 1P members clear the list at 72 hours before departure.
• 2P members clear the list at 48 hours before departure.
• Non-elite members clear the list at 24 hours before departure.

If you have a Fully Flexible ticket (or some RTW tickets) booked in Y, B or M class, then you are eligible for a complementary upgrade without needing to use any e500’s.

qasr

United vs. Qantas
Obviously the two airlines are very different and this could be a whole new thread on its own. I’ll try and point out the things I love about United, and miss about Qantas.

Lounges

The United Red Carpet Clubs are typically a notch below the good QP’s. As always, they vary by location, some are better than others. If you hang out at FT enough, you’ll know which *A lounge or RCC to go to at each location and you can make the best of it. For example, in my pre-FT days, I went to the LHR RCC. It is nice, but usually crowded and has very slow computers. FTers told me to try the SAS London Lounge, which is quite new, nicer, less crowded and had a better selection of drinks. I’d put it only just below the BA Terraces Lounge at T4 only because it does not have as many showers, although the SAS Lounge had MUCH faster computers

All of the RCC’s outside the US have free drinks, however, the US domestic ones (like AA ) have a bar which serves drinks for a fee. If you are a non-elite in a premium cabin or a UA elite traveling internationally in any class, then you will get two drink coupons (again, like AA). The Star Gold lounges vary just as much as the OW ones do in various locations. Finding which has better is the subject of many other threads and I won't go into them here.

Of the Star lounges in SYD, the UA RCC is acceptable, although the Air NZ one is nicer, and most UA elites waiting for flights to the US choose to use it. In LAX and SFO, the lounges are decent. The LAX one is nicer than the old QF one in LAX, but the newer QF one is nicer IMHO just for having many showers available. The UA LAX lounge has one shower IIRC. The SFO lounge is quite nice from what I have heard, I’ll be sampling it later this week!

Note that the RCC and the United International First Class lounge are almost always separate. The RCC is for *G and Business class passengers, while the First Class lounge is for F pax (duh!). All International First Lounges have free booze and are roughly on par to the AA Flagship Lounges.

1P and 1K members have access to any Star Gold lounge when traveling outside the US. If in the US, you are only allowed in if flying internationally (includes Canada, but not the Caribbean...go figure) or if traveling on a US domestic portion of an international trip.

Economy Plus

This is a big winner for me, and one of the main reasons which convinced me to move. It simply the same Economy seat, but with 4-6 inches more legroom depending on the aircraft. On a 14 hour US-Australia flight, this is an AMAZING comfort feature, one which I would now dread doing without. It is subjective, but I think you get a tad more overhead space too, since there are less “passengers per overhead bin”. This can be helpful with all those Americans who refuse to check anything in

Economy plus is on all United planes except the 762's which are retiring over the coming months. Typically the Regional Jets in the US don’t have E+, but the newer ones are coming with E+, as well as First!

UA also claims to block the middle seat for elites in E+ if possible, although this is really only happening more recently now that they are charging for access to E+ to non-elite members. Previously, non-elites could get E+ at check in, if there were seats available, now a fee is being charged which varies according to the distance of the flight. Non-elite members holding full fare (Y,B,M) tickets are also allowed to sit in E+.

US Carrier vs. Aussie Carrier

When I started considering my options, this weighed in pretty heavily. Moving my business to a US company from one that supports my fellow Aussies was not really what I wanted to do. After I considered all the benefits I was losing on QF, the way they treat their status members and the way their service levels have been heading, it didn’t really end up making that much difference. I must admit that I always enjoyed getting on a QF flight in LAX and being greeted with an Aussie accent. This is a personal decision really, so I won’t say any more.

Ted vs. Jetstar

These are the two LCC’s of United and Qantas respectively. I have not had the pleasure of traveling on either myself, but here are the on-paper differences. (RAR!)

• Ted has E+, which is a nice thing on some of the especially long flights (4+ hours) that is has been starting to do recently. The E+ policies are the same to mainline UA
• Ted will interline baggage with regular UA mainline flights.
• Ted will serve you a cup of soft drink/juice for free, but not the whole can. (Does Jet* even serve anything at all?)
• You will get Mileage credit on Ted, the same as you would on UA mainline.
• Jetstar operates in Australia, Ted operates in the US

Needless to say, any member of status on either airline doesn’t like traveling on these LCC subsidiaries.

First and Business Class

Having traveled on QF J (only once with the skybeds) and UA C, I can say that the service in both in inconsistent. When it is good, its good and when it is poor it is awful. I have had good and bad on both. I’ll outline the main differences:

The dreamtime seat in QF was long overdue for an update, and the skybed is nice. Personally I think it is quite inferior to the the BA Club World sleeper seats, but it is better than the UA seats. I just don’t like the downward tilt of the beds. The UA Business seats are similar to the Dreamtime seats on QF, but I find the UA seats much more comfortable. They are softer and have more recline. The bottom line is: if you are in the upper deck, it is going to be quiet, comfortable and you’ll sleep well.

I’ve only traveled in QF First once, and loved every second! I’m yet to travel in UA F, but will sometime next year. The seats in UA F are, I believe the same sleeper suites in the old QF F. I imagine the newer QF F product is better, however I’ll let others who have experienced both weigh in their opinion.

While Food in both is quite comparable, and decent, the wine in QF is vastly superior. UA has typically French and American wines, and rarely an Aussie one. I find most of the wine choices in QF J to be better on average. Again, having not traveled on UA F, I can’t say, but I believe they get mostly the same wines as C.

Earning status by flying in First and Business is much easier in the QF program, however the points earned are practically the same. UA gives a 1.25 bonus for Business and a 1.5 bonus for First. EQM’s are multiplied by 1.5 for First, Business and Full Fare economy.

In flight Entertainment is better in QF too. UA C has personal video screens on all aircraft, but only 6 movies. UA F has the individual video players, so roughly on par with QF F.

The amenity bags on UA have received a cost cutting measure recently and are fairly bare bones. The QF ones have as well, but it seems they are a bit better as far as I remember them.

Economy

Economy seats are roughly the same for QF and UA. UA has E+, which is great on the US-Australia routes obviously. The meals are roughly the same, maybe a bit better on QF. The wine in QF is better.

QF offers a little “bag of goodies” along with some water after the first meal on long haul flights, I liked this. UA doesn’t do this, but on the US-Australia routes they serve a meal mid flight which I usually ignore and keep sleeping. QF also gives you a mini amenity pack of socks, eyemask and a toothbrush which is nice, but absent on UA. This doesn’t bother me too much, as I have many from Business class flights which I keep in my carry on anyway.

In flight entertainment sucks on the UA 744. This is exclusively what they fly between US-Australia. There is mainscreen entertainment only, just like it USED TO BE on QF . Of course, the UA 777’s which fly on most routes between US-Asia and US-Europe have personal video screens in Economy. These have been 6 movie channel systems in my experience. While I think it is really poor not to have personal video screens in the 744, I am usually asleep (or upgraded! ^)for most of the flights between SYD-LAX/SFO so it doesn’t bother me too much. On the trans-atlantic flights, I make sure I get a 777 on the westbound flights, or the daytime eastbound flights, since I’ll be awake for most of the flight.

Award Flights

Award flights, along with upgrades are really where UA shines. I’ll go into detail about how the UA system works since most of you are familiar with the QF system.

UA divides the continents and has a flat mileage rate for an award between Continent X and Continent Y. For the sake of brevity, I will not retype the points chart in this post, and just point you to the united website. United “Saver” Awards and Star Awards. Star awards differ from OW awards. You have to redeem a star award if you have one or more, or all sectors on a Star carrier other than united. This can work to your advantage sometimes and not others.

The bottom line: UNITED IS CHEAPER! Consider doing a paid RTW in Y and being a 1P/1K member. With the 100% bonus, you earn around 50k points. For a Y award Europe to the US, it is only 50k. 60k for US-Australia in Y. You can really play the continent thing to your advantage as well. A SYD-JFK is the same as a SYD-LAX for example.

When you go into premium cabins, it just gets more and more cheaper than Qantas. I’ll give a few examples which I think would be common for most Australia based QF elite flyers:

• SYD-LAX: UA is 60/90/120, QF is 96/192/288 (x1000 for Y/CJ/F travel)
• SYD-JFK: UA is 60/90/120, QF is 128/256/384 (yes, that is UA F for less than QF WHY!)
• SYD-LHR: UA is 100/140/170 via US on UA or 100/120/150 via Asia on SQ/TG *A award, QF is 128/256/384 via US or Asia on QF/BA/AA
• SYD-BNE: UA is 20/30/40 (on NZ) or , QF is 16/32/48, so QF is cheaper here with the new changes, but consider:
• PER-AKL: UA is 20/30/40, QF is 72/144/216 (non-direct flight) or 50/100/150 if there were a non-stop flight. I don’t think First is offered on these routes anyway.

Yes, I am aware that one can find examples that are much better value on QF than UA--this is a representation of what I think most QF FF's will fly often. Post below the importnat ones I have missed.

Standard and Saver Awards

United offers the option of Saver and “Standard” awards. The saver awards are capacity controlled and restricted in mostly the same way as QF FF awards. The Standard awards are approximately double the cost of the saver awards and allow you to book a seat if there is ANY seat not yet purchased in your cabin of choice. The economy awards are booked into the Y fare bucket for example, so you can actually snag an award seat on an overbooked flight sometimes, although, for a premium. Standard Awards are available only on all UA metal itineraries. The Standard award table is available here. Note that as long as there is an emtpy seat in F, you can have it for only 200k SYD-JFK!

Financial Status

UA is in Chapter 11, and some pretty deep financial trouble. I don't believe I am qualified to make any judgements outside of what I read in the papers. I encourage you to do so if you have reservations about UA being around in a few years. Personally, I'm not so worried.

untied.com

Frankly, united.com is a piece of sh*t. It works pretty well for most basic things, but can get very infuriating very quickly! The booking engine for revenue flights is decent, but award flights are a nightmare unless you have a simple US domestic point A-point B-point A flight. I recommend a good travel agent for flights on UA to the US, since the unpublished fares are much cheaper and you don't have to put up with this pathetic excuse for a website. (I know a good Sydney based TA, if you need one, PM me ) If you need more than a simple award booking, call MP. If you need anything not on all UA metal, call MP. If there is a full moon out...call MP. UA recently started charging $15 to issue award tickets over the phone, but this is waived for 1K's. While not official, a little complaining that you couldn't use the website to book a particular itin, could net a fee waiver.

Joining Mileage Plus with Status

UA seems to be pretty generous with comping status. I got comped into 1P, although with the *A status match program, and will make 1K this year. However, they will comp fairly often outside of any specific promotion, although usually only to Premier Executive (1P) status—still Star Gold though! From what I have read on FT, the process is pretty simple.

1. Sign up for a MP account at united.com. (Although, if you are SURE you will take flights, PM me before signing up and I'll refer you so we both get some bonus points )
2. Call the MP desk (best to use the US number) and ask them about matching your status. They'll give you a fax number (+1 520 881 4458, although it might not still be current)
3. You'll need to fax a recent (<6 months) old statement from QFFF showing your status and a short note explaining that you would move a large portion of your business to them if you had status.
4. Done! The status should be reflected on united.com after logging in, usually within 2 weeks.

MUCH more detail is provided in this mammoth thread.

Aisle Seat H provides this advice:
What all this means

If you fit a similar profile to mine, I think it is a win-win situation with UA. Especially with the new changes. If you can make 1K, then the SWU's place the UA program MILES (ha!) ahead of QF. Even if you could only make 1P (2 RTW's in Y per year) then E+ and the mileage upgrades as well as 100% bonus should seem pretty enticing. I think 2P vs PS is a pretty even comparison (depends how much E+ and IFE mean to you) and depends mostly where you fly.

Paid Business and First Class passengers will get status much quicker on QF than UA, simply becuase of the SC vs. EQM system. UA does not reward paid C and F with status like QF does, but your miles are still worth alot more. If you want a better program than QF, maybe SQ PPS is for you?

If you mostly travel on QF domestic, then UA won't help you one bit. Wait for the rumoured Virgin FF Program maybe?

qasr

If I don't mention that the best benefit is the very kind and clever folk on the UA board, I might not be welcome there! Do keep in mind that it is the one of the fastest moving boards on FT, although, maybe not as entertaining as th QF of BA board.

If anyone has decided to switch, I can refer you and get some bonus miles for us both. Just PM me before you sign up for a MP account. Ditto if you need a good SYD based TA for *A tickets. I'll be happy to see another QF->UA jumper, just don't take that last upgrade on SYD-LAX

I hope that this guide was a help to anyone contemplating the change. However there is no doubt that I have left out some critical points and there will be some mistakes. Feel free to PM me, or post them below. I'll edit and add to this post to keep it up to date and accurate.

[reserved for future use]

willyroo

Great thread, qasr. A lot of thought went into this, and it seems very well balanced.

og

qasr, great posting. This seems to make me comfortable with plans to run to 1200 SCs in a year and keep WP, then put any other OW travel on another program (eg AS) and then anything else on *A (ie UA). Ie, a good RTW on OW to get WP and the other RTW (if the budget will stretch) will be on *A (yes, UA). There's just no point in pushing it to OW (QF) any more when the benefits are so good with UA.

Lets hope UA stays solvent and doesn't butcher their FF program. It seems too good to be true - maybe that'll be the thing to be axed if they sink too far into the red again??

Stryker

It only seems to be too good to be true when you compare it to how bad the QF scheme has become. I've been a member of MP for over 15 years, and it's been consistently excellent.

BTW, excellent posts qasr. A lot of time and effort obviously went into them. ^

Dave Noble

However United FF scheme is pretty pointless imo excepting if all travel is international since there is no *A domestic carrier.

Personally, after I get my lifetime status I am considering using the AA FF scheme which, unsurprisingly, works very similarly to the UA scheme excepting that it is OW based. Also, for those at emerald level on OW will notice the lack of 1st class lounge access if top tier on UA

Using the AA scheme will allow me to improve mileage redemptions without cutting my nose off to spite my face; most of my flights are on domestic services which will do me no good in relation to UA, plus of course I would end up losing OW lounge access and would need to purchase a QF Club membership to continue having lounge access for domestic travel.

If there was a domestic competitor to QF in *A , it would make it much more useful than it would seem to me to be

Dave

ozstamps

Very accurate qasr, and you clearly have a Masters Degree in HTML.

Randy does not think his UA miles are going anywhere soon, and that is good enough for me. @:-)

You do not mention the 25% off vouchers from Ent. Books, and they are a goldmine for ozzies. My NYC ticket I do soon cost me $A1100 or so, booked direct with UA phone staff.

The main difference to me is the far cheaper awards, and the guaranteed upgrades.

Last week I flew Seattle-Chicago-SFO-SYD on a single SWU on a vaction return. That is about 12,000 miles, and I have often used a single SWU to Sth America or Europe being 15,000 miles type trips. All guaranteed up front, seating of my choice all allocated etc, and months out at times. And that INCLUDES exit rows which is a massive plus. Only 1P/1k can access exit row seating and they can do so at any time - 330 days out.

I am flying 27,000 miles on UA next week over a few short days for no other reason than to make 1K again for the 5th year running. The SWUs are useable on pretty well any fare you can buy direct off UA here, and that is what QF and others are veering away from - the lowball fares being upgradeable as we have seen this week. Maybe UA will too one day, but not yet.

1Ks can book the upgrades with SWUs months out, and when you turn up use the otherwise useless 500 milers to actually support the upgrade. Agents do not care.

Plus miles are earned on UA are ALWAYS at least 1 flown mile = 1 point - on UA, United Express and TED (aka Jetstar USA). NO exceptions - any buyable ticket gets miles. 1K/1P Elites of course get 2 points for each mile.

A 1K flying 100,000 a year on UA gets 40 x free "500 milers" as mentioned above. But not mentioned above if you do nothing with them (like me most years) they expire and turn into 20,000 account miles - enough for a free RT to Tahiti or Cook island or Tonga etc via NZ - nothing to sneer at. ^

UA looks after top tiers incredibly well. Overnight hotels and food and cabs for anything at all for 1Ks - weather or mechanical delays. And usually a $US400 voucher and free SWU in my experience - as well as instant re-protection on flights. Hey I know that is part of the reason they are in Chapter 11, but we are discussing plan v/s plan here, and bennies like that are not hard to get used to.

I can't resist a plug to also sponsor anyone to MP when your referalls expire - 6,250 free UA miles to anyone who takes a flight by Mid Feb.

zero savings

qasr, that's one large chunk of information. I am a UA 1K and QF platinum, and I have only one thing to add.
UA understands that their C product is inferior and happily bribe high volume travellers to move from SQ , CF, CX etc. I crumple in the face of their inducements.

Although QF C class and lounges are superior to UA, I have been directing most of my business to UA lately. UA understand the needs of high mileage travellers better than QF. There are many ways this is reflected, but the most important is upgrades and free flights. Both for me AND my family.

The last thing I want to do when I come home is travel, but my family doesnt say the same thing. Actually spending my miles and upgrades on UA for me, as well as my family, is easy. On Qantas it is difficult.

And that's what it comes down to for me. The only point of accummulating upgrades and miles is to spend them. And on UA it's easy.

RichardMEL

This is a great thread and very informative to those not used to all the ins and outs of the MP forum. Might be worth making it sticky for awhile

UA has many faults (as they all do) and yes, an inferior product, but as others have said, it's more than made up for by the relative generosity of the MP program and the good staff. The mind boggles with QF's changes clearly aimed at decreasing the availability and demand of premium class awards and upgrades. There are funny rules going on with UA (like the 6 month limit on LH and NH awards) and the like, but these seem small when I got to LHR in the REAL luxary and service of SQ F for far less than QF would want and UA were always helpful in obtaining my goal.

I also know some of the product guys and they know their premium product needs work, and are getting there, but it's difficult in the middle of C11, and I still prefer the MP program.

Incidently was it mentioned hw you can upgrade LH with UA SWU or miles? I didn't notice... I understand Star Alliance wide upgrade awards are in the works for next year...

NM

And that was a significant incentive even before this last round of QF "enhancements". Now it is more than just a difference. Can anyone say back, straw, camel, and broke in the one sentence?

Dave Noble

Therein lies the sort of reason why UA would be useless to me. points can only be earned on international flights and there is zero chance of me wasting my time and money doing such things as flying 27000 miles just for the sake of earning miles. I use flying as a way of getting from point to point; sometimes I'll take a slightly longer routing ( eg doing BNE-ADL-PER rather than BNE-PER ) where it is worthwhile but otherwise I find the whole mileage run type concept as stupid. This year I requalified as WP and would have qualified for Platinum on AA, but if I had been using UA for my trip to Londinium I would be short on points for WP plus have paid a hell of a lot more ( UA LHR-SYD was about £900 plus tax compared to £440 plus tax I paid with QF ) plus have had to flown for several hours longer each way plus had to have flown through USA. I still don't think that UA is that good a prospect a scheme for someone based in Oz unless their travel is predominantly international

My decision in june will be to decide between staying with the Qantas scheme where I may be able to get WP again or taking a lack-of-challenge with AA

Dave

AllyB

Qasr, wow!!!! This is the info I was looking for, thanks for all your efforts. Since about 90% of my travel is international (and most b/w the USA and Oz), I think you have sold me!

ozstamps

The other thing I find is that United staff are more "flexible" - with higher tiers at least. you will never find this as a "published" bennie but it is a fact.

Ask for totally nutty stuff and of course they'll decline, but the "doable" things are legion.

This week I wanted to change a ticketed NYC-ORD-SEA to much earlier flights. Now there SHOULD be a $US100 change fee, but as always a "one time exception" was made, (must be 1000 of them I am up to now!) and the flights were change, and upgrades newly applied. All in a few minutes with no hassle.

I wanted to fly next week to NYC via Settle and Chicago both ways to totally max out my miles. Now seeing there are direct services SFO-EWR and LAX-EWR all day, they SHOULD have insisted I stuck to that as most direct routing on a dirt cheap ticket. Nope, agent laughed at the dumb stuff and few 1000 extra miles I was planning to subject my body to, and changed it all at no fee.

I wanted to move 6 x November expiring 500 milers to December to use them next week. Again 'not possible' according to the rules but they did it. I have a USA confirmed upgrade expiring end November I want to use next month, and I am emailing 1K line now to ask that be extended to December and have no doubt whatever it sill be.

All small things in themselves, but VERY helpful to the customer. And this is just my personal experience in the past week.

United for the last 2 years have had an interesting offer to all members. Fly in the last couple months of the year and they'll DOUBLE your Q miles if you pay them a flat fee - this year it is $US150. (And you need not pay it until AFTER flights are done which is intererting.)

http://www.united.com/page/article/0...2Fdoubleeqmeqs

That means even if you had never flown a single mile on UA or Star before October, two cleverly routed US trips to and from oz will get you over 50,000 flown, and hence 1K card and 6 x SWU of course and 2 x Region 1s and 20 x 500 milers. As tickets to NYC have been running not much above $A1000 + tax in recent months, 2 of those means top tier for under $A3000 inc taxes.

I'd be interested at the lowest $A cost anyone here actually made WP with in 2004, just as a comparison?

I agree with Dave if you fly just domestically United makes little sense. I fly 99% internationally, on my own dime, for vacations, and for me UA makes perfect sense.

Dave Noble

I don't know what I have spent this year maintaining WP status but a more relevant question (to me) would be how much extra time and money have you spent to get top tier status over flights which you would have been taking anyway rather than just to get a pretty coloured card. For me the answer is close to zero though I think that the ticket I had for BNE-ADL-PER was about $20 more than the nonstop would have been

For me flying is a way of getting from A to B ; I don't go to B just for the sake of it, nor try to route A-B via C,D,E,F and G in order to take as long as possible ( as seems to be a popular activity to US scheme members )

I can see how the UA scheme could be v useful for people whose travel has a strong bias towards visiting the US, though I would be interested if you could provide an argument how using my UA membership would be worthwhile for someone like myself whose travel is primarily domestic with the odd Eastern Hemisphere trip to Eggland rather than staying on the OneWorld side.

(UA coming out of Bankruptcy protection will be the 1st requirement for me to start using them though)

Dave