QANTAS new rule changes

Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:20 am
  #91  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 949
This is a joke to say the least - the new point redemption rates are rediculously high. Love the creative wording used by Qantas - "enhancements" "Upgrade Credits difficult" etc.

A slight positive is that some J Class flights on short-haul yield a slightly higher amount of status credits - not like theyre worth anything given the high redemption rates. Example

A return FC Ticket to Bangkok will now cost 180000 points - up from 125000! (I booked some tickets for travel in January)

Isn't it ironic how Qantas charge 2 times the amount of points for J Class and 3 for F Class - when points are only awarded at a rate of 1.25 and 1.5 respectively.

All in all these changes really suck - whether you're a lowly Bronze or a high-yielding Platinum Frequent Flyer.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:22 am
  #92  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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It could have been worse

It could have started 25 March 2005

Pluses
The web site now shows the partner earnings in MUCH better detail
BA WT+ is now properly listed and crediting transatlantic BA flights to
QF may still be the only reasonable option for xONEx
Many East coast AU routes are better credits and awards.
(Where is the QF management based? - no that's a stupid question )

Mixed
as mentioned above economy HKG->BKG is now 15SC but then so is economy SIN->BKK which was 10

Minuses
Not only does Perth suffer from a lack of destinations/schedule but now the cost of awards and upgrades are MUCH higher. PER->SIN RT goes from 30K to 50K and the upgrade from 14K to 24K each way. (Can you say Valuair?)

Net result
I really do need to restart the LONE4 before 31 Jan 05 when the lack of challenge on AA expires for both Mrs & I. Assign enough SC to keep
PS this year but then just keep bronze for the really discount AU flights and the BA WT+ transatlantic.
Consider MPC or ROP if I ever do a (business) RTW again and/or the AA awards get "enhanced" too greatly. Consider the current AA award for Australia -> NZ is 25K (and I don't see a mention of Perth not being in Oz)

YMMV

WF
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:40 am
  #93  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by wandering_fred
YMMV

WF
Please, can someone enlighten me? what does YMMV stand for?

(forgive me if it's ridiculously obvious)
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:46 am
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Dani
Please, can someone enlighten me? what does YMMV stand for?

(forgive me if it's ridiculously obvious)
It isn't ridiculously obvious , it stands for
Your
Mileage
Might
Vary

Dave
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:52 am
  #95  
Lis
 
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Two cents:

Clever how Qantas only tell you what the number of points you need to redeem an award are at the moment and warn that things are changing come 25 May. How hard would it have been to give some transparency to the 'enhancements' and list the before and after award costs?

Although giving feedback is something I enjoy doing a lot of, after emailing Qantas several times over the last few weeks with some very valid questions, I am still to receive a response. (Yes, I did get the autoreply, but certainly nothing more). So, I'm tempted to tell them what I really think about the enhancements, but after mulling it over today, I strongly believe the only way Qantas will get the message is if they see which seats our bums end up on!
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 4:19 am
  #96  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Just my 2 Cents..

At the end of this, there will be a whole heap of additional WP's, if you are SG or below, don't think you will get an points upgrade at all - only if you are lucky :-(.

If you don't earn all of your points, but do some through credit cards such as Amex, then MH may be a good idea to London or Paris (!) - for 200k plus 160k (companion fare) = 360k for 2 F tickets. (With Amex 2 points = 1 FF Point) - i.e 720k points, compare that to Qantas at 384k Each (Have I got this right?) , MH is a better deal. (and they will soon have a new F and J)

After just calling them (MH) and asking them for availability one some dates next year in F guess what, availablity on the 4 days or so, QF however have no FF seats in Z!..

Anyway, just a thought - there are alternatives of course. However should you have a paid seat in J, and want to get into Z and you are a WP then I think the chances will be great.. Just how will they allocate if there are 3 seats, and 5 WP's - will they do it based on when you waitlisted, how many status credits, how many lifetime status credits, or will it be based on your surname (A's go first), or of course the best one, the lower your FF number..

I guess this is one way to help buy those new aircraft next year - for the accountants out there, with it costing quite a lot more to redeem a flight will this mean that they will get to reduce the liability on their balance sheet (I have not checked if its on there) meaning that the liability may be reduced 15 to 20% - effecting their gearing?

Anyway enough rambling... Be interested in your thoughts, or have I just had one too many glasses of Cloudy Bay.. :-)

Cheers

Stuart

Last edited by stuartm; Nov 24, 2004 at 4:21 am
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 4:20 am
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Lis
Two cents:

Clever how Qantas only tell you what the number of points you need to redeem an award are at the moment and warn that things are changing come 25 May. How hard would it have been to give some transparency to the 'enhancements' and list the before and after award costs?
Although I don't like the changes, I don't think that they have been anything but transparent. They have announced it 6 months in advance and provided all the details of the new awards structures. How much more can be expected of them in that area.

You can quickly see details of new costs ( as long as you know the mileage distance ) for both the old and new schemes pretty easily.

Also, for those that haven't noticed that it is changing, anyone going to the points calculator does get a warning when the points cost is quoted that this is only for bookings made by 24th May and provides a link to the programme changes

Dave
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 4:21 am
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by Lis
Two cents:
So, I'm tempted to tell them what I really think about the enhancements, but after mulling it over today, I strongly believe the only way Qantas will get the message is if they see which seats our bums end up on!
Start faxing DJ and SQ boarding passes into the FF centre requesting that the missing points be credited to your account.

I'm sure after a few you'll get a nice call from someone at QF.

Chrisb.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 4:36 am
  #99  
og
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I used to shun the idea of venturing over to *A for a RTW trip. Now even NZ and UA programs are looking like viable alternatives. UA gladly comped me PremEx and that 100% bonus is so easy!

A *A RTW in Business will get status (all be it no QP) and make those trips as pleasant as the good QF flights. It'll be around 20% cheaper than a OW RTW too. It's now a REAL option rather than just the "dark side". That'll keep the UA status.

I think QF have forced FFers to think about draining their FF accounts on those (not) easy to get FF seats. The competition just looks a whole lot better. The only thing now that can go wrong is for UA to go pear shaped.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 5:53 am
  #100  
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Originally Posted by QF ExLurker
The new table is for one way awards, so SYD-CBR-SYD is 16,000 in economy.
B*gger - too many beers, too late at night (as it was for me). Thank goodness for those new fares, then.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 7:30 am
  #101  
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Qantas seems to have become the town whore - out to screw as many people as possible.

It started off with the introduction of Australian Airlines, taking over some routes - only a few flights at first, but expanding greatly - with no SC's or points (I can handle the "no points" part).

Then it went on to DeathStar, with no SC's, and the consequent reduction of QF flights. So my 10 flights between SYD and OOL and back, which *should* have earnt me 200 SC's, are useless, likewise my flights to HBA and LST from MEL.

Now it appears like they were looking for a way to stuff around those who they could not get via the JQ/AO stuff - and the have succeeded.

If Qantas were specifically *looking* for a way to screw people over, they could not have done better than the current program changes.

And I hope all of the Qantas staffers who read this board pass it on to their superiors. I have already been comped Star Gold on UA (subject to providing them with evidence of my SG status - so I get a status higher than what I already have), and I am sure I will not be the first.

Dave
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 7:36 am
  #102  
 
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Nothing worst then the AirNZ system.

I don't even understand their new system.
It was AirNZ started it. Qantas is just following suit... Maybe.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 7:46 am
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Wongo
I don't even understand their new system.
It was AirNZ started it. Qantas is just following suit... Maybe.
Actually, the new NZ system is brilliant. I am just not sure about earning on them, so will stand to be corrected on that point (which may ruin the good side of it).

As for redemptions, if there is an F seat available the day before departure, going for $12K, and you have 12K Airpoint Dollars, then it is yours, regardless of status. Likewise, if you have 120 Airpoint Dollars, and you want a seat available for purchase from AKL to CHC which is selling for $99, then again, it is yours, if you are willing to part with the cash.

In short, no restrictions on availability, if you have the points (Airpoint Dollars) then the seat is yours.

Dave
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 7:52 am
  #104  
 
Join Date: May 2003
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All in all, really sux for the most loyal QF customers who had lots of points (just wiped off 20% of their value) and lots of upgrade credits (made them virtually useless).

Good points: Are there any????

1) The new program should keep Ray Martin away. Couples & families who don't fly very much, can take 5 one way flights (ie earn 5,000 pts), transfer them to one family member and use them. Under the old system it would have taken 20 oneway (short sector) flights for an individual family member to get anything.
2) MEL-SYD/HBA/ADL/LST etc all reduced, plus sectors like MEL/SYD-AYQ & ASP also reduced.
3) Use my NZ Airdollars and Rex Rewards in one direction, QF points in the other if need be (wow )
4) Easier to get to gold and platinum, with increase status credits awarded for many sectors. Great for those who would not have made it there - opportunity to earn the 50%/100% bonus pts to make up for the extra award charges.


Bad points:
1) Increased points for most destinations, (a lot seem to be +20%), but some really crap ones like MEL-BKK (as you have to go via SYD - has gone from 50K pts to 72K) and LAX-JFK from 30K to 50K- a 67% increase!!)

2) Stopovers - despite the comment "there will be no charge for stopovers" - if you do the math, stopovers still cost - in some instances 12,000 pts.Take a MEL-BME return with a stopover in PER one direction. Old system: 30,000 pts + 10,000 for stopover = 40,000 pts. New system: 12,000 + 18,000 + 18,000 = 48,000 pts. (without stopover, this would cost 36,000 pts) therefore stopover is costing 12K. Similarly SYD-JFK with stopover in LAX. Old system = 110Kpts (if did one sector on AA). New system: 137K pts - which is 9K pts for stopover (you'd need 128K pts without stopover)

3) Not sure how they calc distances - on sectors or just the distance between start/end - but if sector distances apply, it really makes it expensive on some routes if direct flight is not available (eg MEL-DRW is 36K on direct flights but if sector distances apply is 50K via SYD/BNE in both dirns).

4) Devalues status as it is easier to get to SG and WP for many, with increase status credits awarded for many sectors. Not so great for those who have already made the status (or would have made it anyway). Only can lead to one thing - bigger queues at checkin and waiting for luggage, and ultimately a decline in privileges if so many make it to higher tiers.

5) Getting charged to make use of some WP privileges - ie requesting a seat be made available will now cost 2,500 pts (OK not such a big deal!)

6) The whole upgrade debacle.

My last four redemptions cost me 147,500 pts. Under the new system they would cost me 187,000 pts.

Last edited by lokijuh; Nov 24, 2004 at 8:03 am
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 8:19 am
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Leumas
I just recalculated my DONE4. Under the current scheme, I'll get 1650 SCs or 1990 with the new scheme.

1650 / 450 = 3.7 UCs = 15000 points (based on 3 whole UCs)

1990 / 450 = 4.4 UCs = 20000 points (based on 4 whole UCs)

Woohoo...?
Yes, that is about the only benefit I have found so far.
Originally Posted by Leumas[/b
This upgrade thing - how often do you get a confirmed international upgrade? I think I'd it happend twice. Most of the times I'd to be on the waitlist. One good thing though, while it means QF will never have to release any U or Z seats until the last minute, it'll save us plenty of time from checking ITN and the like...
I chose my flights to maximise my chances of an upgrade. My Z upgrade from D on Monday cleared one week out. It is much better knowing that I have secured the upgrade rather than waiting until I get there.

Also consider the situation of Mrs NM a few weeks back. She traveled BNE-PER return with Mini NM#4. So she had car capsule, bags and other baby parafonalia to lug through checkin. I know this is a domestic flight, but if her confirmed U seats (paid N, upgraded with my points) had not been confirmed before check-in, she would not have been able to use the business class check-in and would would have had to join the very long WHY queue at each end. The J check-in that came along with the confirmed upgrade was one of the reasons for using my points for the upgrade. That benefit would have been lost if the upgrades were not cleared until check-in.
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