AA baggage allowance on QF award tkt

Old Jul 10, 2020, 6:38 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Cedar Jet
You've assumed I'm flying QF but I'm actually flying Qatar Airways on a fully refundable J fare. The intra Nth American sectors are using QF points. I'm still not convinced I'd not receive some consideration for potential refunds due to the disclaimer that states under each sector " this itinerary follows AA baggage rules including FF status extras".

I may escalate with Qantas in any case.

Thanks
CJ
What is the full routing of your e-ticket? The routing should include whether a segment is a connection or a stopover.

It sounds as though you are on a QF-issued ticket with segments on at least QR, AA & WS.

But, the exact information will yield an exact answer.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 8:29 am
  #17  
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My interpretation is long haul is on a separate ticket so it doesnít exist as far as AA/WS baggage is concern.

Pretend you have zero status with AA in determining baggage allowance DoT requires to be applied to all segments. If you need to use the allowance provided by OW elite, then WS is not bound to honor.

Options 2 and 3 should be incorrect and could be QF IT issue assuming QF will issue as one ticket. AA/WS are interline partners so if QF issue as one ticket (not PNR), AA and WS should check bags thru with allowance matching that of first segment.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 8:33 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by Cedar Jet
Hi and thanks
I tried booking the the first sector with AA in J and it gave me "2 pieces" for that sector and "2 pieces" for the first WS sector but the second WS sector gets "0 pieces" as does the last AA sector if I book in Y - when I book the last sector with AA in J it reverts to "2 pieces" for the whole itinerary?

The J sectors are legal but v short connections and one will require an overnight stay in NY. It's winter and risk of delays is already high which is why I'm avoiding them. The direct flights in Y on AA Eagle are quick, short and much less stressful. Could I possibly call QR to link the QF award portion and see if that will help at all?

Itinerary is:
JFK-YUL AA J connecting or Y direct
YUL-YHZ WS Y
YHZ-YYZ WS Y
YYZ-JFK AA J connecting or Y direct
OK now that I have a much clearer picture of what you're doing, rather than taking a blind guess:

Are the AA and WS segments connecting, ie. less than 24 hours? I am guessing by the behaviour of the allowances that yes, they're connecting? If they are indeed connecting, then the WS flights will take on the AA allowance.

AA is the most significant marketing carrier (under IATA resolution 302 rules) and also the first carrier as per US DoT exception rules. IATA resolution 302 does not apply when the furthest ticketed point is in CAN or USA, so you can ignore IATA resolution 302. Because AA is the first carrier as per US DoT rules, then their policy applies throughout the entire ticket. The validating/plating carrier has no bearing in this, generally.

So, if you fly J on the JFK/YUL segment, then the WS segment will take on the AA J allowance for both flights as AA J is the highest cabin in the entire JFK-YUL-YHZ journey. But if you fly Y on the YUL/JFK segment, then AA's zero piece Y allowance would apply, due to the fact Y is the highest cabin in the YHZ-YUL-JFK journey.

To further expand on what you'll most likely encounter...

If you fly Y for both AA and both WS segments, when you check in with AA at JFK, they'll tag the bag through to YHZ, due to you having oneworld status that waives the baggage charges. It's unlikely they'll collect anything from you. I have through-checked on two separate tickets issued in one PNR from AA to WS before multiple times and neither AA nor WS made me pay anything for baggage despite both the AA and WS ticket having zero ticketed allowance. Warning: allow enough time to collect your bag at YUL and clear immigration and customs as only some carriers (I think mainly WS-WS and AC-AC) have proper through-check. Do not remove the AA issued bag tag after collecting your bag at YUL or WS will want to charge you.

However when you check in at YHZ on the return, WS will most likely want to collect the baggage charge from you. They will however through-check the bag to JFK.

I note that you have mentioned you are flying on a QR commercial fare/ticket - linking the PNRs will not get you the J allowance in Y on the short haul flights. In fact there's no such thing as linking PNRs between reservations systems - QR uses Amadeus and AA/WS both use Sabre. Even if you issued the QF award ticket on the same PNR as the QR commercial ticket (possible to do), you will not get the J allowance on the short hauls due to the fact baggage allowance rules are applied per ticket, not per PNR.

Originally Posted by Dave Noble
If you are checking in with AA for both AA and WS as a connection, then you will get zero allowance since you are travelling on a non OW carrier
AA's Sabre is not configured to charge in such a situation. I have through-checked from AA to WS on two separate tickets issued on the same PNR before multiple times, where both tickets had zero ticketed allowance, and not paid any baggage charges due to being emerald. WS through-checking to AA however required payment.

Last edited by madrooster; Jul 10, 2020 at 8:42 am
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 10:20 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by madrooster
So, if you fly J on the JFK/YUL segment, then the WS segment will take on the AA J allowance for both flights as AA J is the highest cabin in the entire JFK-YUL-YHZ journey. But if you fly Y on the YUL/JFK segment, then AA's zero piece Y allowance would apply, due to the fact Y is the highest cabin in the YHZ-YUL-JFK journey.

AA's Sabre is not configured to charge in such a situation. I have through-checked from AA to WS on two separate tickets issued on the same PNR before multiple times, where both tickets had zero ticketed allowance, and not paid any baggage charges due to being emerald. WS through-checking to AA however required payment.
I donít believe allowance is broken up under 14 CFR 399.87. YHZ-YUL-JFK would/should still get same allowance as JFK-YUL so if 1st segment is J, J allowance still applies to return.

When was your check in experience? AFAIK AA no longer checks bags thru to non-OW even on same PNR unless both airline flights are on same ticket.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 11:49 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by seawolf
I don’t believe allowance is broken up under 14 CFR 399.87. YHZ-YUL-JFK would/should still get same allowance as JFK-YUL so if 1st segment is J, J allowance still applies to return.

When was your check in experience? AFAIK AA no longer checks bags thru to non-OW even on same PNR unless both airline flights are on same ticket.
In practice it has been the first marketing carrier's policy that applies, but the respective cabin's allowance applies per journey.

See this dump where I've auto-quoted a LHR-JFK-LHR itinerary, outbound in Y, inbound in J:

Code:
  FLT/DATE       RTNG   CKIN TM DEP   ARR     TM EQP ML    DURA  DIST
 
  AA 101 O 25MAY LHRJFK      3  0945  1300    8  77W LS    8:15  3451
                                                                
  AA6941 I 05JUN JFKLHR      7  2300  1105+1  5  777 M     7:05  3451
                 JFKLHR OPERATED BY BRITISH AIRWAYS           BA  182
                                                                
LAST TKT DTE 14JUL20/23:59 LT in POS - SEE ADV PURCHASE
------------------------------------------------------------
     AL FLGT  BK T DATE  TIME  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA   BG
 LON
 NYC AA   101 O  O 25MAY 0945  OKX8C1M4                   1P
 LON AA  6941 I  I 05JUN 2300  INW1C1S4        30MAY      2P

GBP  1077.00      25MAY21LON AA NYC57.52AA LON1304.75NUC
AUD  1950.00      1362.27END ROE0.790956
AUD    54.20-YQ   XT AUD 148.50-GB AUD 88.10-UB AUD 5.70-XA
AUD   470.90-YR   AUD 10.10-XY AUD 8.50-YC AUD 8.10-AY AUD
AUD   275.50-XT   6.50-XF JFK4.50
AUD  2750.60
RATE USED 1GBP=1.810621AUD
FARE FAMILIES:    (ENTER FQFn FOR DETAILS, FXY FOR UPSELL)
FARE FAMILY:FC1:1:MAIN
FARE FAMILY:FC2:2:FBUS
FXU/TS TO UPSELL PEC-FBUS FOR 358.20AUD                                         
TICKET STOCK RESTRICTION                                                        
BG CXR: AA                                                                      
PRICED WITH VALIDATING CARRIER AA - REPRICE IF DIFFERENT VC                     
FARE VALID FOR E TICKET ONLY                                                    
ENDOS /C1-2 NONREFUNDABLE RESTRICTIONS APPLY -BG:AA                             
11JUL20 PER GAF REQUIREMENTS FARE NOT VALID UNTIL TICKETED
I last did AA to WS at the start of 2020. No issues. It's quite seamless when everything is on a single PNR.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 12:56 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by madrooster
In practice it has been the first marketing carrier's policy that applies, but the respective cabin's allowance applies per journey.
That makes sense. The first/MSC carrier's entire baggage allowance "policy" applies for entire trip but if travelling in different cabin, a different allowance is used but still within the same overall allowance policy.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 1:20 pm
  #22  
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The marketing carrier here is QF and it is thus QF's baggage policy for JFK-YUL or YYZ (depending on whether YUL is a connection or a stop over). Once that is established, the same allowance applies to all remaining segments of the ticket. Over and above that allowance, each carrier may choose to apply any waivers for class of service or status which it chooses to apply. But those are on a per segment basis.

IATA 302 & MSC rules have not applied since 2011 unless the marketing carrier of the first segment chooses to apply them and QF does not.

Thus, bottom line is that the allowance for AA will be the QF allowance (not including class of service or status). The allowance on WS will be the same, but if the bags are checked through on a connection, OP will not pay them again. Same on the return.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 3:39 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Cedar Jet
Thats not what the Qantas ticket will read if I choose J; I WILL get 2 pieces with WS in that instance. On contacting Qantas again they did hint I could actually take it up with customer care on my return if I was charged - based the spiel included under each sector "itinerary follows AA luggage policy" which I showed them. That would imply 1 x 32 kg as per my platinum status allowance regardless WS not being ow because the spiel was there under both WS sectors. I was also told if it said 2 pieces on the ticket it would definitely be honoured by both AA and WS as per madroosters input. With regard to fare paid I'm actually on a super discounted J fare with QR(think QF W in price) I never pay higher than I or A for any fare. In this instance it's an R fare with QR-amazing, too good to pass up value, being well under 5K.
Of course you will get 2 pieces if you book business class. The ticketed allowance using AA'a allowance is 2 pieces. What you are not entitled to is any additional allowance due to status
If you book economy, the AA allowance is zero

What you are being shown is correct in that the allowance will be zero if you book economy - there is no entitlement to any additional allowance for status since you are travelling on a non OW carrier


It is really straightforward. Go to the AA baggage page and check the allowance for US-Canada when holding no status. That is your allowance. Your emerald status has no bearing on this trip
Originally Posted by Cedar Jet
With regard to fare paid I'm actually on a super discounted J fare with QR(think QF W in price) I never pay higher than I or A for any fare. In this instance it's an R fare with QR-amazing, too good to pass up value, being well under 5K.
So not on a J fare then.

Last edited by Dave Noble; Jul 10, 2020 at 3:55 pm
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 3:41 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Often1
The marketing carrier here is QF and it is thus QF's baggage policy for JFK-YUL or YYZ (depending on whether YUL is a connection or a stop over).
No it isn't ; the person is not booking a QF maketed flight, just using QF points to book a flight on AA/WS

Originally Posted by madrooster

AA's Sabre is not configured to charge in such a situation. I have through-checked from AA to WS on two separate tickets issued on the same PNR before multiple times, where both tickets had zero ticketed allowance, and not paid any baggage charges due to being emerald. WS through-checking to AA however required payment.
If the OP gets away with it on AA-WS when allowance in system is zero, then that is fortunate, but I would not rely on it and base planning on having to pay
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 5:49 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Often1
The marketing carrier here is QF and it is thus QF's baggage policy for JFK-YUL or YYZ (depending on whether YUL is a connection or a stop over). Once that is established, the same allowance applies to all remaining segments of the ticket. Over and above that allowance, each carrier may choose to apply any waivers for class of service or status which it chooses to apply. But those are on a per segment basis.

IATA 302 & MSC rules have not applied since 2011 unless the marketing carrier of the first segment chooses to apply them and QF does not.

Thus, bottom line is that the allowance for AA will be the QF allowance (not including class of service or status). The allowance on WS will be the same, but if the bags are checked through on a connection, OP will not pay them again. Same on the return.
QF is the plating carrier here not marketing carrier.

Marketing carrier is the airline whose flight number is on the ticket. QF cannot sell a QF code operated by AA for a US-Canadian itinerary.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 8:23 pm
  #26  
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Just to clarify:
-It's one ticket with a QF PNR and 081 ticket number. The flights are AA and WS flight numbers respectively-no QF codeshares.(I do have the seperate AA and WS PNR's as well)
-I'm connecting QR to AA same day JFK-YUL (If I chose J its an o/n in JFK, connect following day)
-Stopping off a week in each of YUL, YHZ, YYZ
-Connecting same day YYZ-JFK then QR to SYD (If I chose J YYZ-JFK its an o/n in JFK again and connect with QR to SYD next day)

The TWA Airport hotel looks like an adventure so it's not the end of the world if I decide to choose J. It does seem choosing J for both AA sectors would take away baggage charge grief but add to complexity of overnighting at JFK.

I have decisions to make....this is all ridiculously complicated. I wish air travel were more seamless.
Really appreciate the input!
CJ
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 8:39 pm
  #27  
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It isn't complicated - you seem to just trying to make it complicated. When you travel on a non OW airline, your status means nothing. The QR flights are irrelevent to this , so ignore them

If I am reading it correctly , you are doing

JFK-YUL AA
stopover
YUL-YHZ WS
stopover
YHZ-YYZ WS
stopover
YYZ-JFK AA

Since there are stopovers , each is treated independently

For the AA flights, since these are standalone OW journeys, then you will get the Emerald benefit of 3 x 23 kg
For the WS flights you will have no free baggage allowance and be charged based on AA's baggage fees

AA's baggage fees for US-Canada as per https://www.americanairlines.com.au/...ge/baggage.jsp are $30 for bag 1, $40 for bag 2 and $150 for additional bags

For bags weighing >23Kg , there will be an additional fee of $100

If you book in business class, then the business class allowances will apply - baggage allowance is included in business class fares and the weight allowance per piece is 32Kg
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 9:51 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
It isn't complicated - you seem to just trying to make it complicated. When you travel on a non OW airline, your status means nothing. The QR flights are irrelevent to this , so ignore them

If I am reading it correctly , you are doing

JFK-YUL AA
stopover
YUL-YHZ WS
stopover
YHZ-YYZ WS
stopover
YYZ-JFK AA

Since there are stopovers , each is treated independently

For the AA flights, since these are standalone OW journeys, then you will get the Emerald benefit of 3 x 23 kg
For the WS flights you will have no free baggage allowance and be charged based on AA's baggage fees

AA's baggage fees for US-Canada as per https://www.americanairlines.com.au/...ge/baggage.jsp are $30 for bag 1, $40 for bag 2 and $150 for additional bags

For bags weighing >23Kg , there will be an additional fee of $100

If you book in business class, then the business class allowances will apply - baggage allowance is included in business class fares and the weight allowance per piece is 32Kg
Hi again

Firstly I had no expectation Qatar segments SYD-JFK-SYD would have any bearing at all as they are separate tickets/PNR's. I only raised that to give clarity I wasn't flying QF. Secondly, I'll have to disagree with your summation re WS charging me.
I've gone ahead and booked business class now for the AA sectors which gives me "2 pieces" each sector including the WS Y sectors -officially as per my ticket. If I am charged for the WS sectors Qantas will need address that and reimburse. Qantas again however, assured me the ticket says 2 pieces each sector and that will be honoured by WS.

Thanks again for yours and everyones input.
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Old Jul 10, 2020, 10:23 pm
  #29  
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Since you have booked business class, then indeed you will have a baggage allowance of at least 2 pieces for the journey on all sectors whether AA or WS - as the ticket states

I am lost on why you think that anything other than the listed allowance of zero would apply to WestJet when booked in economy - Qantas status provides no baggage benefits on WestJet
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Old Jul 11, 2020, 5:59 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Since you have booked business class, then indeed you will have a baggage allowance of at least 2 pieces for the journey on all sectors whether AA or WS - as the ticket states

I am lost on why you think that anything other than the listed allowance of zero would apply to WestJet when booked in economy - Qantas status provides no baggage benefits on WestJet
So you're not lost I'll remind you...

​​​​​​"American Airlines Baggage Allowance applies to your itinerary. Does not include any applicable additional allowances eg frequent flyer these will be shown on the confirmation page"

Stated under each of the 4 sectors(i.e. AA and WS) on confirmation page regardless of the sector being in Y or J. It was also Qantas' assurance that it meant at least 1 bag of 23kg. Also to clarify, and as it stand's, the "2 pieces" translates to 2 x 32kgs and not 2 x 23kgs which I thought may have been the case for the WS sectors. I even found a same day connecting flight from YYZ-JFK-SYD so I'm hoping AA might tag my bags through to SYD with QR being a OW cousin. I'm also looking forward to spending a night at the TWA hotel on my arrival into JFK. I'm reading a lot of great things about the experience staying there (despite it costing a bomb-still better than having to leave the airport in snow and freezing winter temps).

I did look at doing a paid ticket in J with Air Canada and it amounted to over $3000 AUD as opposed to $150AUD in taxes. I really don't want to be messing around in Y, esp for Christmas time travel.

All in all I'm a happy chappy. Now lets hope I can leave Australia in December!
Many thanks to all again.
CJ

Last edited by Cedar Jet; Jul 11, 2020 at 6:14 pm
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