We’re not price gouging, blame the airports ..
Nice to know that QF is on our side. The big bad guys that own/ lease/ run airports are gouging the consumers. Sigh. https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...11-p5032w.html |
Not surprising really. Most US capital cities have more than one airport in a 50 mile radius. Anothet factor to consider how shoddy most US airports are in comparison to Australian equivalents.
Think about how hard it is to build a second runway, not to mention a second airport anywhere in Australis. It is a known fact that SYD and MEL are full in terms of landing slots. Curfews don't help. Accordingly where demand significantly outstrips supply, the price has to go up. Solution: more runways/airports or other modes of transport such as high speed rail (this discussion is a wholly different cattle of fish though). Problem solved. |
Originally Posted by og
(Post 30193158)
Nice to know that QF is on our side. The big bad guys that own/ lease/ run airports are gouging the consumers. Sigh. https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...11-p5032w.html You mean the very airports that the airline expects to pay for their own capital costs of new runways, etc...right? You mean the airline that simply tweaks its "carrier charges" at will, including on redemption fares...? The airline that plays the patriotism card, but won't support the national interest by servicing regional cities...? The airline that's crying poor when it makes a record profit...? The airline that charges Australians disproportionate high fares compared with those found in other countries...? The airline that expects to ram home lower costs onto suppliers...? The airline that evades staff wages by setting up a whole new operation (JQ) and announces staff bonuses which only apply to those that acquiesce to its draconian IR regime...? The airline that spurns its own Code of Conduct by giving freebies to politicians...? The airline that can afford to pay out an annual bonus of $25 million to its CEO whilst sacking 250 call centre workers leading to ridiculously long call wait times for customers...? The airline that can afford to enter a protracted and costly capacity war with its domestic rival...? And this on a price differential of a few dollars per passenger compared with the US model...? The QF PR is a thing of wonder...the arrogant attitude of the CEO and executive a case study in corporate sociopathy...! |
Originally Posted by littlegreenman
(Post 30193544)
Not surprising really. Most US capital cities have more than one airport in a 50 mile radius. Anothet factor to consider how shoddy most US airports are in comparison to Australian equivalents.
Think about how hard it is to build a second runway, not to mention a second airport anywhere in Australis. It is a known fact that SYD and MEL are full in terms of landing slots. Curfews don't help. Accordingly where demand significantly outstrips supply, the price has to go up. US airports are not run as shopping centres and are not run as private companies - the airports are ok ime - the long time that can occur waiting at security are not caused by the airport |
Originally Posted by Dave Noble
(Post 30193682)
- what should happen is that airports in such situations should not be private companies -
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What has been allowed is bizarre - like the protection that the train station has to allow it to charge access fees that make it better for 2+ passengers to take a taxi - also , iirc, the limiting of bus services to the airport to limit competition
Even if in private ownership, the fees allowed to be charged for items such as passenger arrivals/departues and parking fees should be regulated It isn't like a shopping centre where there is competition - if a shopping centre suddenly decided to start charging $10 for 30 mins parking, people can go elsewhere - at an airport, not many options It is wonderfully amusing that Qantas is whinging about price gouging whilst it does the same to its frequent flyer members that dare to redeem for flights |
Originally Posted by Dave Noble
(Post 30193682)
...the long time that can occur waiting at security are not caused by the airport
Best example is WTB. Private airport. Built in record time specifically because the government couldn't get their finger out of their backside for years, win win for everyone and a well functioning airport. If we left it up to the government then we'd have another Badgerys Creek on our hands because government means incapable politicians which are no better than the incapable CEOs. If we had a technocratic government my response would be very different. |
Originally Posted by littlegreenman
(Post 30194354)
No but by a government agency. Presumably the same type you're proposing should operate the whole airport since you're saying the private companies are the issue?
Check official id validdate the boarding pass require that everyone remove shoes and belts etc remove all liquids use the new snazzy detectors that take quite a long while to process people etc then there would, I suspect, be pretty long wait times at domestic security checkpoints, especially at places such as Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane |
Originally Posted by littlegreenman
(Post 30194354)
No but by a government agency. Presumably the same type you're proposing should operate the whole airport since you're saying the private companies are the issue?
Best example is WTB. Private airport. Built in record time specifically because the government couldn't get their finger out of their backside for years, win win for everyone and a well functioning airport. If we left it up to the government then we'd have another Badgerys Creek on our hands because government means incapable politicians which are no better than the incapable CEOs. If we had a technocratic government my response would be very different. You can't justly compare the whole project lifecycle time line (from scoping study, extended scoping study, pre-feasibility study, feasibility study, value improvement studies, notice to proceed, construction, commissioning, etc) in one case to just the construction phase on another. Unfair comparison. Nor can you compare a multi billion dollar project such as Badgery's Creek with one in the ballpark of $100 million. Again an unfair comparison. So, no, not the best example. There was also reportedly some controversy about the Council planning processes for WTB with submissions lodged using pre amalgamation rules just before the new amalgamated Council system came into play enabling a easier process for the airport owner. Privatising core / monopoly public assets has repeatedly led to price gouging by the private operator - water in the UK, telco and power in Australia, Sydney Airport on its travellers, etc. Core infrastructure and monopoly assets should never be trusted to private operators. I was a consultant at Sydney Airport just before it was privatised - management successfully managed the pre-Olympics construction projects and had a world leading safety operational program and IME key leadership folk were evidently highly competent, moving on to be GMs of other airports in their own right (Newcastle, Brisbane, Port Marquarie, etc): there was a significant downgrading in the safety effort and huge loss of operation collective competence / experience post privatisation. Trotting out the line that governments can't run anything is blatantly not true and actually demeaning to many highly competent folk in the aviation industry. Yes, sure actual governments and certain folk therein are frustratingly hopeless, but that shouldn't be confused with the good work of many public servants. You might also recall - regarding the notion that private operators are somehow superior - that one certain ridiculously overpaid airline CEO had run QF into the ground just a few years ago and was begging the government to bail it out with taxpayers' funds (this confirmed in private discussions at that time with a certain MP who is now a party leader). Kinda like the government needing to bail out the banks and other financial institutions post GFC and place guarantees on account balances, etc. . |
We’re being softened up by QF through blame deflection so we’ll accept more fees / co-payments with barely a whimper. |
For an amusing read, check out some of Rex's press releases. Various stoushes with local councils increasing user charges over time. Different situation, council are monopoly providers, but often so are Rex, and seem quite happy to walk away if councils don't want to play ball. Bit different to the city situations, the airlines can't just walk (fly?) away if they don't like the charges.
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The federal government has no business running a major international airport.
I'm not opposed to local councils "owning" regional airports, because in most cases they're run by a council owned business (eg Newcastle). But for a SYD/MEL/BNE airport - could you even imagine? We've moved on since the days of airline regulation. The old models don't work anymore. At the end of the day, aviation isn't a hugely profitable business. That's why nobody wanted Western Sydney Airport and the government is stuck with it. If it's a success it will be sold off well before it gets much bigger.
Originally Posted by Platy
(Post 30194659)
Trotting out the line that governments can't run anything is blatantly not true and actually demeaning to many highly competent folk in the aviation industry.
. I'm not talking about the tactical running of the airport - which is what you're talking about. At the end of the day, a competent APS worker and a regular civilian are no different, despite where their pay cheques come from. However - we'd never see APS staff running airports again, they would be employees of the commonwealth corporation like Australia Post. It's the strategic management and bureaucracy where they'd trip up. They'd be more worried about staff completing gender diversity training than making sure the runway is serviceable. |
Originally Posted by justinbrett
(Post 30195233)
The federal government has no business running a major international airport.
I'm not opposed to local councils "owning" regional airports, because in most cases they're run by a council owned business (eg Newcastle). But for a SYD/MEL/BNE airport - could you even imagine? We've moved on since the days of airline regulation. The old models don't work anymore. At the end of the day, aviation isn't a hugely profitable business. That's why nobody wanted Western Sydney Airport and the government is stuck with it. If it's a success it will be sold off well before it gets much bigger. I'm not talking about the tactical running of the airport - which is what you're talking about. At the end of the day, a competent APS worker and a regular civilian are no different, despite where their pay cheques come from. However - we'd never see APS staff running airports again, they would be employees of the commonwealth corporation like Australia Post. It's the strategic management and bureaucracy where they'd trip up. They'd be more worried about staff completing gender diversity training than making sure the runway is serviceable.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/201...privatisation/ Your comments on the APS and gender diversity training are completely random, presumably Tory Twit gibberish. Any competent organisation publishes Code of Conduct Guidelines and undertakes training for its staff, whether publicly or privately owned - that necessarily involves covering relevant legal topics, OH&S, etc., including discrimination, harassment, etc., for the purposes of health and safety, managing business risk and ensuring legal compliance. Whether you respect such or not is immaterial - both private and public organisations do it! Ironically, the publicly owned Sydney Airport had world leading training and innovation in eLearning for safety training (just as the privately owned Qantas), although that not of interest to the incoming private owners. A final point, on gender politics, since you raised it, most airlines have less then 5% women on their pilot payroll. FWIW since there seems to be a lot of wanton misrepresentation by your new (religiously driven) PM and others - gender diversity training has a purpose - to address the 80% attempted suicide rate in a group of young people. When you scorn such you are showing complete disdain for the wellbeing of such children. A shameful lack of leadership in our PM and stupidity in those that buy into the his abusive nonsense rather than considering the facts. Like I said, Tory Twit, and it would be amusing if not putting the lives of children at risk. |
[mod hat] Keep in mind that this is the QF forum so when discussing things make sure that you are contributing to something which touches the Qantas group. [/mod hat]
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Originally Posted by Platy
(Post 30197217)
Prior to (all 22) Commonwealth owned airports being sold or privatised, they were administered for the Commonwealth by the Federal Airports Corporation. SACL was the new Corporate entity that took over (in this case example) SYD airport after privatisation. Airlines (eg QF) merely continued to operate as before in their commercial encironment. |
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