Qantas FF Rewards - Don't promote loyalty
Aug 1, 2018, 3:48 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sydney
Programs: Qantas Frequent Flyer, Velocity, Krisflyer
Posts: 1
Qantas FF Rewards - Don't promote loyalty
Discovered yesterday that QFF rewards program is purely a profit program and not concerned with customer loyalty or service.
I booked a classic rewards flight to KL for my parents, so my Mum could go visit her sister.
However, my mum is a little concerned about the return leg being Penang>>KL>>Singapore>>Sydney
So, I booked a separate flight via another rewards program to go from Penang direct to Singapore.
Big mistake. After speaking to Qantas I was informed a couple of important facts.
1) Because it's a rewards flight they will not allow me to cancel the KL to Singapore leg without cancelling the Singapore to Sydney leg.
2) If they don't show for the KL to Singapore flight, the Singapore to Sydney flight is automatically cancelled.
While I understand that I am one of the 20% or so of Frequent Flyer Points collectors who actually use their points, to be treated as a second class customer is kinda disconcerting.
The person on the phone was quite insistent on "Terms & Conditions".
Yes. I understand Qantas is a business, but customer service is what makes your business successful. Not allowing you to cancel a leg of a flight even if it's a connecting flight is stupid.
Moral of the story- don't book connecting flights with classic rewards, you'll get screwed over if you have to make a change for whatever reason.
Qantas, your lack of customer service in today's day and age really explains why you aren't doing so well financially (admittedly your FF rewards program must be making you tons of money)
I booked a classic rewards flight to KL for my parents, so my Mum could go visit her sister.
However, my mum is a little concerned about the return leg being Penang>>KL>>Singapore>>Sydney
So, I booked a separate flight via another rewards program to go from Penang direct to Singapore.
Big mistake. After speaking to Qantas I was informed a couple of important facts.
1) Because it's a rewards flight they will not allow me to cancel the KL to Singapore leg without cancelling the Singapore to Sydney leg.
2) If they don't show for the KL to Singapore flight, the Singapore to Sydney flight is automatically cancelled.
While I understand that I am one of the 20% or so of Frequent Flyer Points collectors who actually use their points, to be treated as a second class customer is kinda disconcerting.
The person on the phone was quite insistent on "Terms & Conditions".
Yes. I understand Qantas is a business, but customer service is what makes your business successful. Not allowing you to cancel a leg of a flight even if it's a connecting flight is stupid.
Moral of the story- don't book connecting flights with classic rewards, you'll get screwed over if you have to make a change for whatever reason.
Qantas, your lack of customer service in today's day and age really explains why you aren't doing so well financially (admittedly your FF rewards program must be making you tons of money)
Aug 1, 2018, 4:00 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BNE, 73H Seat 13A
Programs: QF Silver
Posts: 297
Of course a multi leg ticket will be cancelled if you don't fly a leg. Case in point: SYDxDXBxLON is cheaper than SYDxDXB. So if you have a round trip and don't do the extra London let you lose the rest of your ticket.
You'd have the same issue with SQ, CX, EK and other reward or paid inventory unless you get fully flex which costs extra.
Don't blame Qantas. Blame the whole industry or yourself for not being aware. This has nothing to do with customer service. If you had paid more for a full fare you could get a refund or amend the booking at no/limited extra charge.
Aug 1, 2018, 4:19 pm
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,550
The purpose of the customer service team is not to help you get around the T&Cs of the programme
Aug 1, 2018, 6:19 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 985
I would suggest the latter. It's far easier to blame the "big bad corporation" than to acknowledge one's ignorance.
Aug 1, 2018, 6:48 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: QF LTG:
Posts: 1,859
For some further understanding of why you can't just cancel one leg of a booking (paid or reward) google 'hidden city ticketing'.
Aug 1, 2018, 6:51 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SYD, Australia
Programs: VA Silver, QF FF, Priority Club
Posts: 920
Discovered yesterday that QFF rewards program is purely a profit program and not concerned with customer loyalty or service.
I booked a classic rewards flight to KL for my parents, so my Mum could go visit her sister.
However, my mum is a little concerned about the return leg being Penang>>KL>>Singapore>>Sydney
So, I booked a separate flight via another rewards program to go from Penang direct to Singapore.
Big mistake. After speaking to Qantas I was informed a couple of important facts.
1) Because it's a rewards flight they will not allow me to cancel the KL to Singapore leg without cancelling the Singapore to Sydney leg.
2) If they don't show for the KL to Singapore flight, the Singapore to Sydney flight is automatically cancelled.
While I understand that I am one of the 20% or so of Frequent Flyer Points collectors who actually use their points, to be treated as a second class customer is kinda disconcerting.
The person on the phone was quite insistent on "Terms & Conditions".
Yes. I understand Qantas is a business, but customer service is what makes your business successful. Not allowing you to cancel a leg of a flight even if it's a connecting flight is stupid.
Moral of the story- don't book connecting flights with classic rewards, you'll get screwed over if you have to make a change for whatever reason.
Qantas, your lack of customer service in today's day and age really explains why you aren't doing so well financially (admittedly your FF rewards program must be making you tons of money)
I booked a classic rewards flight to KL for my parents, so my Mum could go visit her sister.
However, my mum is a little concerned about the return leg being Penang>>KL>>Singapore>>Sydney
So, I booked a separate flight via another rewards program to go from Penang direct to Singapore.
Big mistake. After speaking to Qantas I was informed a couple of important facts.
1) Because it's a rewards flight they will not allow me to cancel the KL to Singapore leg without cancelling the Singapore to Sydney leg.
2) If they don't show for the KL to Singapore flight, the Singapore to Sydney flight is automatically cancelled.
While I understand that I am one of the 20% or so of Frequent Flyer Points collectors who actually use their points, to be treated as a second class customer is kinda disconcerting.
The person on the phone was quite insistent on "Terms & Conditions".
Yes. I understand Qantas is a business, but customer service is what makes your business successful. Not allowing you to cancel a leg of a flight even if it's a connecting flight is stupid.
Moral of the story- don't book connecting flights with classic rewards, you'll get screwed over if you have to make a change for whatever reason.
Qantas, your lack of customer service in today's day and age really explains why you aren't doing so well financially (admittedly your FF rewards program must be making you tons of money)
Every airline in the world does the same. It’s revenue management unfortunately, the same thing would apply to a paid cash ticket.
Aug 1, 2018, 8:24 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: mostly MEL
Programs: QF WP LTG, HHonors Diamond, NZ Gold
Posts: 1,750
Penang-KL-Singapore-Sydney is 48,000 points + MYR874 in Y.
Singapore-Sydney is 28,000 points + SGD 252
It costs you 6,000 points to cancel the first, you would get your MYR refunded. So doing this, you would be 20,000 points and SGD 40 ahead. What is the cost of the alternate PEN-SIN direct flight?
Regards,
BD
Aug 2, 2018, 4:35 am
#8
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: MEL
Programs: QF GA NZ WN. Accor+ Bonvoy IHC
Posts: 250
I agree with others here. This is not a QFF issue and like a ‘normal’ ticket rewards tickets comes with t’s and c’s, you just paid with points as opposed to cash, so I think you’re being treated very fairly as any airline would with a paying customer. If you had a bought a ‘normal’ ticket you’d be faced with exactly the same issue. Take responsibility for your own actions and don’t blame everyone else because you didn’t get what you wanted after you’d entered into a contract to buy a product. And unless I’ve misread, your mother is still getting home, I’m sorry this may distress her but you need to take responsibility.
Aug 2, 2018, 4:41 am
#9
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, United Kingdom
Programs: British Airways Gold
Posts: 2,635
It's threads like this that make me feel sorry for airline customer service agents
Aug 6, 2018, 10:34 am
#10
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
Welcome to FT and the trash those who aren’t experts feeding frenzy! So award flights don’t allow an open jaw sector?! I didn’t know that myself...some cash fares do...?! IIRC some airlines do allow
Aug 6, 2018, 3:01 pm
#11
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BNE, 73H Seat 13A
Programs: QF Silver
Posts: 297
They do allow open jaw bookings on an award, always have. However as with any booking they don't allow you to not fly a sector and then continue as if nothing else happened, it'll invalidate the rest of your booking. Google hidden city ticketing.
Aug 6, 2018, 3:48 pm
#12
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,550
not being able to just skip a sector is normal with all tickets
For award tickets the terms state that prior to commencement of travel on the ticket that the following is permitted
however after commencement of travel
That the agent followed the rules correctly is not bad customer service - it is good customer service ; to me bad customer service is where an agent refuses to do something where there is an entitlement to do
Originally Posted by QF FF
14.3.9 If a Member fails to board a Flight Segment of an itinerary containing only Classic Flight Reward Flight Segments, the remaining Segments will be cancelled. The cancelled Segments will only be reinstated if Classic Flight Reward seats are available. If any Segments are reinstated, the Reinstatement Fee will apply (see the Fee Schedule). In addition the Points required for the entire Itinerary including both travelled and reinstated Segments will be recalculated and any additional Points required will be deducted from the Member's
Originally Posted by QF FF
14.7.4 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Flight Reward after ticketing and prior to commencement of any travel and will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel;
(d) change to any Segment routing or airline;
(e) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas); and
(f) request to cancel ticket and re-credit Points. Please note that only Points that would not have expired will be re-credited.
(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel;
(d) change to any Segment routing or airline;
(e) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas); and
(f) request to cancel ticket and re-credit Points. Please note that only Points that would not have expired will be re-credited.
Originally Posted by QF FF
14.7.6 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Flight Reward flight before departure of that flight, provided the booking contains one or more Flight Segments that are not within Australia, and the Flight Segment(s) being changed do not include a partner airline that requires a ticket to be reissued for the change. Any such change will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number; and
(b) change to date of travel.
(a) change to flight number; and
(b) change to date of travel.
That the agent followed the rules correctly is not bad customer service - it is good customer service ; to me bad customer service is where an agent refuses to do something where there is an entitlement to do
Aug 6, 2018, 7:43 pm
#13
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Lifetime *G (MP), Lifetime PE (Bonvoy)
Posts: 1,465
I work on the principle that it always pays to ask, and I've lost count of the number of times the response has been "just this once". However, that's only where I think I've got some leverage (eg. FF status) and I know there's room for flexibility, whatever the rules might be. That said, I agree with everyone else; the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on. I've sometimes found a (paid) Australia-Singapore-KL ticket cheaper than an Australia-Singapore ticket, checked in with only a carry-on and abandoned the flight in Singapore; there's never been any blow-back with subsequent bookings with the same airline, but it's always been the final leg I've abandoned, not the first leg, which is what the OP wants to do
Aug 6, 2018, 8:36 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
So the customer would ordinarily be able to have an open sector and the QF agent could have offered to change the booking before flights taken..
...in the case that travel had started since a sector involved a partner airline no changes allowed to the itinerary so there are two sets of rules those with purely Qf and those not purely Qf itineraries (?)
so Qf should have been able to offer a solution before travel commenced by CHANGING the booking or splitting or whatver..,that would be good customer service!, right ?!
If travel had commenced the rule about a partner sector could be the impediment and the real issue:?the award ticket is less flexible in such circumstances
are folk claiming this latter rule is:
1) Industry standard for reward flights
2) widely known
3) that cash paid itineraries have different TCs if partner airlines involved
i must admit that in many years of the FF game I never realised that my ability to change a Qf award may be affected by which airlines featured in the itinerary!
so I guess that would make me as well the OP the target of the evident contempt for ignorance expressed by some herein
...in the case that travel had started since a sector involved a partner airline no changes allowed to the itinerary so there are two sets of rules those with purely Qf and those not purely Qf itineraries (?)
so Qf should have been able to offer a solution before travel commenced by CHANGING the booking or splitting or whatver..,that would be good customer service!, right ?!
If travel had commenced the rule about a partner sector could be the impediment and the real issue:?the award ticket is less flexible in such circumstances
are folk claiming this latter rule is:
1) Industry standard for reward flights
2) widely known
3) that cash paid itineraries have different TCs if partner airlines involved
i must admit that in many years of the FF game I never realised that my ability to change a Qf award may be affected by which airlines featured in the itinerary!
so I guess that would make me as well the OP the target of the evident contempt for ignorance expressed by some herein
Last edited by Platy; Aug 6, 2018 at 9:34 pm
Aug 6, 2018, 8:53 pm
#15
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
sure individual knowledge is empowering to mitigate such