Delayed flight EU 261/2004
 

Thought I would post my experience on this as it may be of help to some flyers.

Recently I was outbound on QF2 from LHR. The flight was delayed for approximately 2 hours due to a mechanical issue. When I reached Sydney (actually only an hour or so late by that time), I just missed my connecting flight so I was re-booked on a later flight.
I arrived at my destination 4 hours and 15 minutes late. As I travel quite a lot for work, I was aware of the EU 261/2004 laws but I had not really looked into it. A few minutes research told me that yes, I was due compensation under the regulation.

• I had departed late from my connecting airport and as a result, arrived over 4 hours late to my destination (had I arrived between 3 and 4 hours then 50% of compensation would be due)
• For the purposes of the regulation, my total flight booking (three flights in all) was considered as one "flight"
• The reason for the delay was in the airline's control - mechanical reasons in this case

The total distance of my flights was over 3500 kilometers, so the total compensation due was the maximum provided by the regulation - 600 Euro.

I downloaded a form letter and sent to Qantas customer care stating my claim, and waited.

• I first received a form email stating they would respond within 2 business days.
• After 9 days with no response I sent another email requesting a reply, and received nothing.
• Approximately a month later I finally did receive a response, apologizing for my delay experience and stating that due to "Gahan vs Emirates" they accepted my claim in this instance, and provided a form for payment details.

I have not actually received the money in my account yet, as they quote 10 to 15 business days to process payment but it is a successful result .

I do think that 600 euro for a 4 hour delay is quite substantial for the inconvenience suffered in this case. However I do have a lot of experience of Airlines trying to get out of their legal obligations. Either by lying by omission and purposefully not telling me my rights in a delay situation like this, or a lost luggage scenario. I get that they are a business so if they don't have an obligation to tell you about your rights they probably aren't going to. But I don't find it ethical.
So I make a point of finding out my rights and doing my best to get them to honor their obligations. The end result of too many customers getting compensation due to the EU laws is Airlines may have to increase the connection times they will allow. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Anyway I wanted to get this out there as I did not see much information on passengers successfully claiming this. It may wall change in the future as airlines try their luck in the courts.

Welcome to FT and the friendly QF forum, dmrit. While of course a delay is bad I am glad Qantas is adhering to the law without too much fuss. There have been instances where airlines refused to pay, then the customer went to court and won and the airlines still didn't pay. Only when the Bailiffs showed up and started to impound an aircraft at Vienna airport did the airline finally pay.

FWIW as a general point, Qantas does have a self-appointed code of conduct, so it isn't just about legal compliance: they should follow their own "ethical" code according to their own guidelines and it would be reasonable for a consumer to expect them to.

I can't help but think that everyone ends up paying for what is..(IMO!!!) ..an excessive level of compensation.... I only suggest it is excessive because I can't think offhand of ANY other situation in life where ANY compo is paid for a failure to meet stated timings- certainly not 600 Euro for 4 hours . Seeing a Doctor.... appointment times are a joke (and that is at a non bulk billing practice) ... whats that? An urgent case might arrive? Sure... but how is THAT any less expected than an aircrafts mechanical troubles... why doesn't the medical practice have to take that into account - and pay for getting it wrong like the airlines? The plumber who says 2 pm...and turns up at 5 because the "previous job took longer than he thought"... Why is that MY problem? See what I mean? Why is ones time so valuable if "stolen" by an airline...but not when wasted by others?

Lets not even talk about OTHER forms of public transport......;)

If you feel it is excessive, then you are free to choose not to claim it should you get delayed - or even ask in writing that it give you a lower amount instead

EC261 is a very good thing imo and discourages airlines from engaging in activities that they are happy to do where it doesn't apply

Flight has been cancelled - you have been rebooked on tomorrow's flight - pay for your own hotel and food
You have been downgraded - have a tiny refund for it


It would be good if there were equivalent protections elsewhere

4 hours is the minimum delay period that attracts EUR600 and only applies to journeys 3501km and further - for a short flight of up to 1500km, the compensation is only EUR250

Because if you get upset waiting for your doctor you can go to the one down the road and pay the same price. If you book your plumber for 2pm and she is late you can reschedule, or find a new one, for the same price.

If an airline cancels - and it may not just be mechanical, it might be a crew shortage or any number of things within the airline's control - it would be rare if you could go next door and buy anything less than a full walk-up fare, potentially many hundreds of dollars more.

But, the same a as doctor seeing an emergency patient, if the matter is an extraordinary circumstance, outside the airline's control, they won't be held accountable for the delay or cancellation compensation.

Hmmm... yes your time is valuable and you can exert some control yourself over many situations...my renderer always turned up on time - result is more business to him and recommendations from me to other potential clients. The painter didn't show on time to quote painting the outside of my house - result is no work for him - he loses $7000 work!

Former hardresser wasn't running anywhere close to scheduled appointment one hour into the day, so I walked out of the waiting area and never went back and I am very happy with the performance of the other local hairdresser. First hairdresser loses a client and advocate.

Then JQ cancelled flight on me 30 minutes before departure (but still flew the plane CNS-SYD empty) so I have never flown JQ again (can't be trusted).

IMO there needs to be a system in place to steer the airlines away from bad practice for issues under their control.

Running to schedule is a key part of the service / product being offered by the airline but the contract of carriage is too loose - the gap needs to be filled...

None of this matters. The EU has chosen to enact EC 261/2004 and it applies to this ticket because it was an EU departure.

The other side of all of this is that recent studies suggest that less than 2% of valid claims under the Regulation are ever made. If that were to substantially increase, the cost would be significant and that cost falls to passengers.

The EU, the national enforcement people who could punish the failure to proactively notify, and it seems everyone else are just fine with the balance where it is.

I've claimed previously against Qantas for a dogs dinner of a prolonged overnight delay leaving LHR and they paid promptly. I doubt many folk on the same flight knew they were entitled to such compensation though (we told those we could). When the Icelandic volcano struck my family was stuck in Europe for an additional 8 days. Lufthansa put up quite a fight but paid in the end too. Its there so why not use it?

Some doctors in the US give refunds if they make you wait too long.

In the UK train companies provide compensation / refunds if you are delayed - sometimes when it is not even their fault.

I think the idea behind EC261/2004 is solid, but the specifics leave a bit to be desired.

LH paid compo for that? I would have thought that a volcanic eruption would be the most extraordinary of circumstances.

Im guessing that it wouldn't have paid the EUR600 compensation, but it would have been liable to pay for accommodation/meals and incidentals during that period

They paid just under 1500 euros in compo and also rescheduled our flights. The claim covered the additional accommodation and meal costs as well as car hire for the extra week we were grounded. We kept all receipts. I used a template letter from the ATUC in the UK. The technicalities are in the text below, note the bolded text at the end. They paid our claim in full.

The EU rules that state that I should have been assisted by yourselves are in Regulation (EC) 261/2004. In this Article 5 states that in the case of cancellation or delay of more than one day I am entitled to be reimbursed or re-routed under Article 8 and also offered assistance, including accommodation, meals and transport under Article 9.Article 9 states:1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
— where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary,
or — where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.Under Article 5 part 3, airlines are able to avoid paying compensation in accordance with Article 7 in the case of 'extraordinary circumstances', but this extraordinary circumstances clause does not apply to the entitlement to assistance under Article 9.