Dave Noble

It may be speculation - but I am unaware of any case of someone being rebooked onto another flight , whilst the 1st one is still operating, without any agreement by the passenger

Also , my reference to an oversold cabin is indeed speculation that that flight had a business cabin - if it didn't then the passenger did travel in the highest offered cabin; I was not aware of any single cabin services between Sydney and Brisbane though

Regardless, QF's response seems to be in line with how other airlines work ime in calculating the refund

If not thinking 8000 miles is adequate compensation, need to work out a reasonable figue and ask for it in compensation rather than a refund on the fare; it may be that the airline will agree to a reasonable request for compensation

Platy

In many cases the airline has the passenger over a barrel (needs to get somewhere for whatever reason) and at a disadvantage (unaware of legal rights or lacks the competency to negotiate or circumstances to do such in the moment of having travel plans being recast.)

Behaviour of other airlines is not an indicator of what is reasonable or ethical or legal

Compensation provisions in overseas eg European markets may be a useful reference.

My data point QF behaved dishonestly and unethically by its own published guidelines.

IMHO seek cash compensation in line with accepted international standard not local airline scams

Dave Noble

The compensation level in Europe would be about 30% of 4% of the fare paid - but Europe is the only region I know of to offer such mandated compensation; other areas would work in the same way as Australia

Using Europe as an international standard to work from

The distance for SYD-BNE is 467 miles , which in Euope would qualify for 30% refund of that sector
The total distance for the journey is 11,066 miles
so the percentage of the jounrey downgraded is 4%

30% of 4% of the fare paid would entitle to 1.2% compensation would be payable if in Europe

Looking at fares, the lowest 'I' fare for that route is $4732. If on such a fare, then the compensation due in Europe would be $57
At the other end of the scale the 'J' fare, price is $9332 , so compensation would be $112

Compared against international standards, 8000 miles is not bad against $57 cash imo

og

Euro comparispn: flying LH on AMS-FRA-SFO 2 or 3 yrs ago. Ticket was a LH oz - Euro - oz Biz Z fare. Suffered an Invol downgrade on the short AMS-FRA sector in paid Z (discount Business) to economy on same plane. Immediately offered E200 compensation voucher for encashment at FRA during tranfer stop. Money duely handed over after about half an hour of stuffing around because tbey couldn't find the key to the cash tin hidden under a countet.

Platy

Many thanks for the calculations, Dave.

Do I understand correctly that your calculation is the value of the downgrade only?

I'm no expert on the European regulations, but what little understanding I do have having had a quick Google search suggests that the airline would need to provide three types of compensation concurrently:

1) Cash compensation for delay
2) Reroute or refund
3) Refreshments / accommodation

...crucially, such applies when an airline cannot accommodate [/I]in the class booked[/I].

I'm not entirely clear on the exact parameters of the OP, but to provide a ballpark figure:

1) Delay of 2-3 hours on a sector 1500km or less id s type 1 flight = EUR250 = AUD360
2) Refund for downgrade - Ok let's accept your calculations and take the mid point = AUD85
3) Refreshments - assume provided if lounge access was honoured despite downgraded to economy

That makes a total of (AUD360+AUD85) = AUD445.

So, if I was the OP I would argue that the European regulation could be used as a reasonable standard and would seek AUD445 cash compensation. The compensation has to be in cash if one applies the European regulations.

However, if I was happy to have the points I would expect at least 17,800 points, since this is the number of points I could purchase through Amex at $25 per 1,000 - a benchmark I just happen to use personally.

If they offered 8,000 I would politely decline...but that's just my opinion.

Dave Noble

Since the delay was weather related , there would be no cash compensation for the delay. It is not required to reroute the passenger

There would be duty of care, but for a passenger in the lounge, there would be no real cash outlay required

The only amount due to the passenger would be $56->$112

Platy

Apparently, not necessarily that simple...

http://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-d...on-bad-weather

Dave Noble

also unless delay exceeds 3 hours there is zero compensation anyway

Platy

This whole thread has got me thinking...I have an upcoming CNS-MEL-LAX on QF booked into business / first using Alaska points: in the event that they try to downgrade the CNS-MEL sector there would be little I could do in the event if I don't want to miss the MEL-LAX sector...


...flying as QF Platinum / LTG may provide a little protection, but flying as lowly low status Alaskan Airlines passenger might lead to different outcomes...

...also, there is little incentive for the airline to act ethically / honestly in these situations...scarey stuff....

Dave Noble

It is very rarely that involuntary downgrades occur, so I wouldn't be overly worried

RichardMEL

You would also be treated as a full fare F passenger ....

sxc

I didn't think it happened often either but then one of the few times I flew QF this happened:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qanta...pensation.html

Dave Noble

As far as reimbursement goes, if downgraded, the passenger would be sent back to the ticketing airline for any refund due

vbroucek

If I was scared based on what I read on FT before every flight I take, I would probably stopped flying many years ago...

Shazzadude

I had this happen to me last year flying business BNE-MNL via SYD. The evening before my flight, someone from Qantas called me to advise that my BNE-SYD flight had been cancelled, and if I still wanted to fly business class on another BNE-SYD flight I would have to catch this particular one, which I agreed to.

So next morning I check in, go into the lounge at BNE and only realise upon boarding that I've actually been placed in the first row of economy, which pisses me off. I had overheard others saying it was a sold out flight, I'm guessing they oversold business and then bumped me out or something on purpose. They tried to call me while I was in MNL after I complained on their Facebook page, but I didn't have roaming. Upon returning to Australia I saw that they had credited 10,000 points to my account.