LHR/MEL/Europe FF

the base fare is points and a hefty fuel surcharge.

the ability to earn points is a paid bundle, over and above the normal fuel surcharge and associated taxes. Sometimes hundreds of dollars more for the bundle.

there was no 'free ride' with ASA bookings IMO.

Dave Noble

Fuel surcharges exist with regular award bookings

They were a free ride to status for numerous people and were being touted as such on fora

It is the one part of the changes that I think where Qantas has done the right thing. Removing the ability for the group of people who knew that by phoning QFF they could book marginal ASAs and game the system to higher status levels is a fairer thing

Princess fiona

This was a great way of spending the QFF points. I used them for trans-con bookings but will now book flexi fares split between QF and VA and upgrade with points. Like others I am not surprised that they are being removed. It won't affect me personally unlike the other changes to earning on OW partners.
The whole JASA thing was becoming a little crazy with people flying all over the country on day trips solely for the purpose of obtaining airline status. Now they won't be able to do that anymore (at least not in Australia )

RichardMEL

Just to clarify - I never had a problem with JASA's as such - I had used them myself in the past - when the points required were at reasonable levels (not often) but I did have a problem with those claiming JASA awards *at the classic award rate* - eg: 16,000 points for a one way J award MEL-BNE(I think, the amount doesn't much matter) vs well over 50k points for the same benefit as a "proper" JASA. it was using the loophole to get the points and SC's at the set rate that I am happy enough QF has closed up. Good on those who took advantage of the role (someone at the FT BNE do quoted some rule code to give to agents who refused to do it) - I mean it was using the program as it existed, and that's fine as it was, but QF have identified this for the loophole that it is and are closing it. As a supporter of the company I am happy with that result. To me it's somewhat akin to the infamous "Baht Run" used by UA flyers around 14-15 years ago to accrue then-top status for about $1k spend. It was allowable under the rules of the day and was smartly used by some people, and then closed. Simple as that really. Of the raft of changes QF have done I think this is the one people should complain about the least IMHO.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

the 50K points was exactly that... to get any seat on any flight.

the 16K level (plus hefty additional $$ - I don't know why people overlook that) was for a classic award seat that came with a bundle for the points and SCs.

JASAs for the classic award were only available per classic availability.

Two entirely different products.

No one would buy a 50K ASA if they could get the 16K classic JASA unless they wanted the flexibility.

RichardMEL

Sorry, I don't understand this and maybe I'm missing something, as I never actually took advantage of that "program feature" but the classic award(plus fees) was for an award seat. What do you mean about "... that came with a bundle for the points and SC's"? Do you mean a bundle of MORE FF points spend for the JASA? In which case, that is entirely appropriate as that was always the intent of the award feature.

.. and thus the loophole which was being exploited by some.

I think you missed my point. The JASA was clearly (to me, anyway) never intended to be available at classic award levels, but booked into the same buckets (eg: P, U) and that was the argument(as I understand it) that was being used to get the JASA at the Classic level..

As I said when the JASA's were more transparently available via the website a year or 2 back, it was very clear QF's intent - burn more points, but "buy" the seat and SC's/points for the flight.

Of course nobody would pay >3x the price (in this example but usually way more from what I have seen) for the same thing. Absolutely. This was never the intent of QF though, which is my point that this is a good thing (for the airline) to close up this loophole. Yes, it's been great for those that have taken advantage, and I'm not having a go at anyone who has/does do so before July 1 - making the most of the program rules as they stand - but from the point of view of the program and QF it had to be fixed.. and they are.

Mwenenzi

Are you mixing up "points & pay" revenue tickets with JASA which are also points and pay or with award flights which are points and pay surcharges? These subtle differences confuse many on the web site (which may be the QF intention).

RichardMEL

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but it's a good point - I hadn't even thought about THAT. lol.

btw I forgot to add earlier to the comment about the taxes and fuel surcharges on classic awards and how people don't mention it. I simply don't because I consider the same "costs" (in points) added into the JASA award level.

I suppose some could then argue well my 16K classic award + $50 (or whatever) charges would be equal to my 50k points for the JASA.. but I still see it as a different kettle of fish.

note the numbers are pretty much made up from the top of my head, and not intended to be taken as a real example.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

My comments were in reference to those who think there was some 'loophole' surrounding JASAs. I don't believe there is one.

There are three separate products. Let's take a MEL-SYD J class.

1) classic award. 16K plus fees and surcharges. No points.

2) JASA (booking into award bucket). This was only available if award space was available. But by paying a lot more $$ you essentially bought points and SCs. This is the same as a jetstar bundle.

3) An any seat award... MEL-SYD for 50K - but this was the ability to buy ANY business class seat on ANY flight. There didn't need to be award inventory in existence in order to be booked.

Some are saying 2) was some sort of loophole. No one has yet said how it differs from a jetstar fare (a classic award is still a fare with a very large fuel surcharge payable) with bundle. On both you have the option to pay extra to get points and SCs.

RichardMEL

OK. Since as far as I know I am the only one who's used the specific term "loophole" I'll address this and perhaps admit either a misunderstanding or that I had it wrong, and am happy to be corrected.

Thank you, by the way, for clarifying I appreciate that.

now my ignorance comes from the fact that I had never booked JASA's from the award pool so I am coming from never practically done this.

My *understanding* of what was going on was simply that some were seeing a classic award available on flight X and rather than paying the JASA fee, often many multiples of the classic award fee, were citing a rule in the QF system that basically said you could have the JASA at the classic award rate. I had never heard any mention of extra payment, above perhaps the already added on taxes/fuel fees as on any classic award. So you say by paying a "lot more $$$" you'd get the JASA awards. It does sound a little like points+pay, but I also recognise that it is definitely a different thing.

As I said my original contention was based on my belief that some were basically grabbing JASA awards at the classic award price (much lower) because of the same bucket thing and that it did not involve payment of extra money over and above what the Classic award would cost.

If I've been mistaken then I'm happy to be corrected on this.

serfty

see here on AFF:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.c...o-i-29610.html

(They used to be able to be booked online, but sinnce June last year one needed to call)

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.c...ook-52004.html

TBH I believe they were an illustration of the law of unintended consequences.

They were available when ASA's did nor earn points and SC's.

I reckon to drum up ASA business Qantas decided to make ASA booking eligible for earn ...

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

used to be that the co-pay was around the same as a classic award, but QF bumped this up considerably so could be paying a couple hundred dollars more for the ability to earn SCs and points (hence comment that it was no different to a jetstar bundle)

RichardMEL

Thank you sertfy. Yes this clears it up. I was thinking of the ""Right on Q" number 7740 " option which I had heard about.

Well I still think it is definitely an unintended consequence and a bit of a loophole, but soon to be closed whatever one thinks it is.

Again I say congrats to all that took(are taking) advantage of this and doing well. I have no qualm with that at all.

it is a good decision by QF too to clear this one up. IMHO anyway

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Right on Q 7740 is the ASA at classic award plus hefty co-pay.

no loop hold.

unless you categorise jetstar bundles as a loophole as well.

blutek

mASA example SYD-LHR J (U bucket) from last Nov bookings:
Classic Award 128,000 points + taxes.
JASA (or mASA) 128,000 + $685. Earns points & 240 sc's.