Cedar Jet

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business...tas-should.htm

Gotta love the wheeling and dealing QF may be involved in

Awesom Andy

It's going to be quite difficult for Qantas to leave SIN. After all, assuming I'm counting correctly, it is the 2nd busiest hub in terms of number of international flights in its network.

abczyx

I think personally that if QF were to do this EK deal, or move to Dubai at any rate, they'd just get swallowed up by Emirates. Why would passengers going from Europe -> Dubai -> Oz switch to a QF plane halfway through? EK have a large and increasing set of routes to Australia already. And the indication in the articles on the potential QF/EK tie-up suggested that they'd drop Frankfurt and only fly from LHR in Europe. EK has exclusive feeder traffic on every other destination.

Therefore I think a QF move to Dubai would be a disaster. They're better off sticking with their BA alliance in SIN, where they can be more competitive. SQ's hub is not nearly the same kind of transit pax operation as EK. Neither situation is great, and neither will on its own fix Qantas, but a deal with EK sounds like a bad idea.

And that's on top of the arguments in the article. Makes sense for QF to go SIN and then on to Jetstar as well.

Globaliser

But haven't you just identified the exact problem with sticking with BA? The BA/QF combination over SIN can't offer sensible connections to any European ports other than LHR (or, currently, FRA). Anyone else flying from Australia to nearer European ports would naturally gravitate towards using EK or a similar airline so that they can get there with only one stop and a much shorter journey time, so EK are going to eat QF on this traffic in any event.

TPJ

I do agree with abczyx. Who would need QF then? Mediocre airline with low service standards and average FF program...

TPJ

Let me remind you that 22 years ago QF also served BEG/ATH/FCO/CDG (plus LHR/FRA)... When in 2002 (IIRC) EK commenced service to PER (yes - PER was their first destination in AU), I requested our Travel Manager to talk to them about a deal in C - they offered us a very nice deal and we still maintain a relationship... (and QF virtually ignored us then).

Dave Noble

Emirates 1st destination was Melbourne ( DXB-SIN-MEL ) and they were running this in the 1990s

Dave

moa999

And you had five stops, and a once a week service was viewed as fine.
QFi flies a lot more services than 22 yrs ago, and faces a lot more competition, many of it from airlines with much cheaper cost bases.

Cedar Jet

Despite QFI's woes(desperation?), it's nice to note they may still hold some cards with regard to SIN/Changi.

I still think a CX and/or QR option make alot more sense.
Popcorn in hand waiting and watching.

CJ

abczyx

The problem exists regardless of whether QF stays with BA or joins EK. It's a fundamental issue of Qantas not offering enough destinations in Europe to compete with the Asian and Middle Eastern carriers, and demonstrates the grand success of EK's trans-Dubai strategy.

All I'm saying is that, by avoiding DXB, Qantas and BA would probably do better with handling the part-route passengers (e.g. SYD-SIN, LHR-SIN). I think SQ and Cathay are probably easier to compete with in this category, and neither SIN, HKG nor BKK are transit hubs to quite the epic scale that Dubai is.

I don't think QF would benefit from all of the services EK has from Europe to Dubai, simply because most passengers would just stick with Emirates. It's not even a reflection of Qantas' quality, merely the fact that most people would tend to book both parts with the same airline.

It is a tenuous argument yes, but to be frank, as you pointed out, QF don't have a great hand to play. Either way, EK are very tough competition and that's before you add SQ, TG, CX etc. The plus points for SIN aren't great, but at least there are a handful of things to go on (East Asian focus, Jetstar etc.), plus a teeny tiny chance QF might rebuild a network in Europe. If they switched to Dubai, QF would be resigning themselves to LHR as their only European destination.

(Too long version - SIN not great, but DXB worse)

Platinum A332

QF should partner with CX (I have mentioned several reasons before, plus these new ones).

- A SYD/MEL-HKG flight can use one aircraft per day, whereas a LHR flight requires 3 (even DXB requires 2).
- CX is not as strong in Europe, and can stand to gain from additional feeder traffic (to perhaps allow CX to increase their FRA services for example).
- Middle Eastern connections available via HKG with J/W/Y product (to DXB, AUH, BAH, RUH, JED) - also to AMM on RJ.
- If QR joins oneworld, they have very strong operations out of BKK, HKG, SIN and member-elect MH hub in KUL. QF could then do a JBA with QR and BA without jeopardising the relationship with existing partners.

Dave Noble

That CX is not as strong in Europe is a good argument to partner with Emirates. Dubai has great connections into Europe

As far as what LHR can do, a big issue I see is that there are a lot of other places in Europe where passengers may want to go to ; going via London to get to places like Rome, Athens etc is not exactly a great choice; Dubai gives a nice connecting point to avoid overflying ones destination.

I see lots of benefits to Qantas with an arrangement with EK, but have trouble seeing what great benefits EK gets out of the deal

Qantas is an airline in its own right; any alliance membership should not work to detriment of itself ; if having to worry about what other airlines think when trying to improve ones own position would suggest to me that the alliance is perhaps something not to be a member of

Blackcloud

Completely agree with Dave Noble on this one.
I cannot see what EK will get out of this, except may be eliminate a competitor, and I hope that the relationship does not pan out.

doctorjosh

OneWorld passengers will have a bit more choice when MH joins the alliance (hopefully by 1Q2013) to offer Australian passengers one stop services from the major Australian cities to CDG, AMS and FRA (in addition to LHR).

Dave Noble

All of those are close together at the western end of Europe. What about those travelling to the rest of Europe. I don't know many people who want to fly over their destination (figuratively) fly for a couple of hours, connect and then fly another couple of hours back again