Blackadder1402

And still doesn't explain how Short Haul piolts are involved, as opposed to others outside there control.
Joyce insists on cutting costs to a minimum, this will not be accepted by the majorioty of the QF workforce and nor should it be.
If they want to pay third world rates, set up office in a third world country

chandi

Both QF and SQ fly MEL-(SIN/LHR). They compete for the same customers. They fly the same planes. They offer the same (in many general ways) the same service. But for QF providing this service costs 20% more than SQ. But evidence in passenger traffic already shows that QF cannot charge 20% more for the same service.

Same argument can go for US flights with UA.

But my local doctor in Melbourne does not compete for the same patients as the local doctor in SIN or BKK or even NYC. So the Melbourne doctor does not need to consider the fees charged by the SIN or BKK doctors when they set their fees.

This is why it is cheaper to buy a house in Broadmeadows or Dandenong than Hawthorn but your phone costs the same. Local pricing works in certain industries and do not in others. Air travel is one of these were global relativities have always been important. Historically this is why the QF pilots are paid so heavily as the rates were agreed when the $1UAD ~= $USD 0.50 so that a QF pilot was remunerated at a similar level as a SQ or BA pilot.

cbourl

Time to support Virgin

What a repulsive airline Qantas has become with a vile CEO! Remembering the Lufthansa pilot's strike - far more impact on far more passengers - and thats a corporation -QF is just a crappy airline with crappy routes with little world impact and the cost cutting over the past few years make flying Qantas even more repulsive than in the past - just shows the self importance of the CEO and shareholders. Even Lufthansa with its cost cuttting upgraded its Senator Lounges to "World Class" standards - now compare the Senator Lounges in Muenchen and Frankfurt to the crapppy QF Business lounges in Brisbane and Melbourne!!!!!

Qantas and Aussie gov sabotage of Ansett which was Australian owned was bad enough - I lost several hundred thousand Ansett (Star Alliance ) points - now lets get rid of QF!!! And heres to Virgin joining the Alliance! ie the Star Alliance
Lets all agree that we only really fly QF out of necessity rather than pure choice!

SighMN

Disclaimer: I'm usually pro union as I work in a field where I see countless employees get mistreated by their employers. Once money and greed take over sometimes humanity takes a back seat.

I can't really comment on this issue as who knows all the intricate details of the union agreements. I do know that other corporations have asked significant sacrifices of their employees and a lot of these agreements have been approved (look at American Airlines). The problem is that Qantas has not nurtured the good will of its employees, and therefore the employees are not accepting the current terms. In some ways this does boil down to a failure in management regardless how petty or unrealistic the unions are in their demands. Management should have never let whatever wounds there were fester and consciously developed a positive relationship with the unions. I can't help this current move by Qantas' management will do nothing but increase the wound potentially poisoning the whole company.

thewinchester

Well the level of traffic over this grounding has been so extreme, it has caused fellow frequent flyer forum Australian Frequent Flyer to crash.

Been down for at least the last 45min, no sign of return or official comment on their twitter account.

binman

A dreadful decision from a CEO who has shown a distinct lack of any ability to manage and sell his vision for the future to the staff. Many many thousands will be disrupted and without warning and with no ability to make alternative arrangements. The BBC described what he did as the nuclear option and one can only hope that in doing so the CEO is removed in order that a more enlightened approach to people can be taken. This is after all a profitable and successful carrier, there is no need for this but there is a need for multi million dollar CEO to take people with them and many many business around the world including those highly unionised, have been able to take their people with them through consultation discussion and putting people at the heart of what the do.
Shame on this CEO he really needs to go
My thoughts are for the unfortunate staff at LHR and around the world today having to face the angry and disgruntled passengers affected by this decision.

alanR

The above came from another forum - are those figures true?

moa999

A very diverse set of opinions from the abcnews24 commentators.

Did i hear right that the next point under fair work act was a 21day conciliation period? then potentially arbitration

Princess fiona

Actually I disagree. The Australian public will be significantly worse off if QF fold.
I choose to fly QF by choice and I will hopefully be able to continue to do so

TachOz

Booked to fly on QF568 and QF17 next week, Perth to Buenos Aires. Wonderful.

Looking into rebooking on to LAN for the international flights and Virgin for the domestic leg...But I'm concerned even the LAN flights are going to be affected by this as they use Qantas staff for their ground operations in Sydney, don't they?

ButFli

Perfect move by Joyce and Qantas. The unions have been acting like they are the ones calling the shots but then Qantas comes in and smashes them with this. The unions can threaten all they want but if the planes aren't flying they can't do anything. It takes a lot of guts to make such a bold move but it is definitely the correct one. Show the .......s that your company will not be dictated to by some stinky union.

Although legally it does seem a bit shifty from a corporate law perspective. Apparently Qantas has been booking hotel rooms for weeks in preparation. Clearly not a spur of the moment decision so probably something you need to tell your AGM about. Just sayin.

TPJ

FYI... Published 30 minutes ago on virginaustralia.com:

Information for Affected Qantas Customers

Updated Saturday, 29 Oct 2011 at 6:00PM AEST

Virgin Australia has put measures in place to assist as many affected Qantas travellers as possible over the coming days.

We will accommodate Qantas passengers on current services where possible and we are currently looking at putting on additional services.

If you are currently stranded at a port away from home and you hold a Qantas ticket to return home within the next 5 days, you will be eligible for a “Stranded Passenger” recovery fare.

Details of these fares will be published soon. Please continue to check this page for updates.

Hvr

And with Melbourne Cup day on Tuesday the impact will be huge in tourist traffic to MEL this week.

Of course this will resolve the matter one way or the other and hopefully Christmas flights won't be disrupted.

Naturally there will need to be a huge trust building exercise to convince people to actually travel with QF.

moa999

alan r - qantas has just finished its full year (june year end) so some of those stats are old.

certainly for fy11 executive pay went up because execs were paid some short term bonuses (mostly profit related which did significantly increase) but not long term (more share price related) but joyce's base pay only went up 3%.
however disclosure of exec pay is a pretty complex issue

Itsalongwaydown

I'm meant to be half way between MEL and CBR as I type but I'm enjoying the pleasures of Hilton South Wharf.
Qantas did immediately process a refund for my ticket but the alternate DJ ticket tomorrow was twice the price. (no surprise)

I hope there are some TI options.