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Qantas International & Domestic grounded

Qantas International & Domestic grounded

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Old Oct 29, 11, 1:53 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by vbroucek View Post
Isn't he former union thug?
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Let's keep it civil, folks. Argue the issue, not the personalities...

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Old Oct 29, 11, 1:54 am
  #47  
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Woooowwww...

First they grounded a/craft during the ash cloud, while DJ was operating...

Now this...

I know it is Saturday, but Dom Perignon must be free flowing at Borgetti's office (hey John - share it with your fellow employees - you can send a bottle to me as well)

Last edited by TPJ; Oct 29, 11 at 11:29 pm
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Old Oct 29, 11, 1:54 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by chandi View Post
........By far QF pilots are the best paid in the world. In some cases they are paid double the wage+allowances (take home cash) than airlines competing on the same route. .....
I love it when I hear arguments like this. It commoditises a job role globally. Sure, why have a call centre staffed locally on big wages when you can offshore it to a third world country for less? Why not go overseas for cosmetic dentistry or surgery? Maybe its because the paying customers don't want a third rate service. (Take note at the number of companies bring call centres back on shore and making a song and dance about it!)

Bean counters so often just look at costs and the bottom line, failing to look at quality. Yes, there's always a market for people that quality is secondary to cost. That's why Jetstar was created. If you want quality, fly Qantas.

On another note, I love the timing of the announcenment - Just after AJ gets a massive pay rise (because he has to be paid the same as other directors of airlines) and before the Melbourne Cup. Great way to p155 people off!
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Old Oct 29, 11, 1:55 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by willyroo View Post
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Let's keep it civil, folks. Argue the issue, not the personalities...

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I am sorry to slip - but could not help myself after listenning to him on ABC24...
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Old Oct 29, 11, 1:57 am
  #50  
 
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This is a bit surprising but something had to happen soon. There were some stories and editorials in the newspaper yesterday and today (the Sydney paper that work puts in the tea room) that were interesting. Dick Smith’s editorial made sense, QF has to cut labour costs somehow.

I don’t like what Alan Joyce has been doing with Qantas, mainly related to the

Good thing I got home on Wednesday morning. Hopefully this doesn’t last too long. I have to make a trip down to MEL in 2 weeks and was planning to fly rather then get the bus.

There is someone at work going on holiday tomorrow. She was booked on QF to LHR. QantasLink CBR-SYD, then QF31. Likely to get put onto BA, or will she get stuck?

Watching ABC24. More evidence that Anthony Albanese is a total moron.
The NSW and VIC governments asked the PM yesterday to get involved. She claims to want to give QF and the unions a chance to talk... Does she have a brain? They’ve been trying to sort this out for the past year.
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:00 am
  #51  
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QF seems to be planning for a long stoppage. From the QF site:

The following commercial policy options are available to Qantas customers holding a valid Qantas (081) ticket issued on/before 15 November 2011 who are directly affected by schedule change activity (ie cancelled and retimed flights resulting from ongoing industrial action) for travel from 14 October 2011 up to and including 15 November 2011.
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:04 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by haydensydney View Post
What a fantastic and bold move by an airline that has been besieged by a bunch of b!tchy unionists.

God I love a corporate cat fight. QF moved their piece into checkmate - good on them.
I flew in from the UK this morning on QF - just made it. Probably no option for QF. Either management run QF international on a globally competitive cost base or QF international closes leaving the remaining parts of the group to make a profit and retain their own staff. Business is tough. High cost base = no profit = no options and no future.
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:04 am
  #53  
 
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that was up about two days ago, if they were planning this and knew before the AGM and did not inform the ASX, someone will have to answer some questions.
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:07 am
  #54  
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Originally Posted by nonce View Post
Joyce will survive this you only need to look at the shareholder votes from the AGM. 95%+ supported all resolutions including Joyce renumeration. QF won't be permitted by the Government to stop flying for long, this is just to force Fair Work to make a decision.
As Jack Welch said "Shareholder value is an outcome—not a strategy."

That aside, when the pilots et al, all decide that something is wrong then that is a pretty clear signal that there are fundamental flaws in the running of the company. That or both sides are greedy beyond belief.
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:08 am
  #55  
 
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"I've been to cities that never close down..."
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:10 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Can the government force Qantas to resume service? What options are available to them?
Even if Fairwork Aust (the industrial authority) or the Government could they have nil power over the unions. The Labor party is controlled by the unions. A significant number of the Labor Government ministers are ex union bosses. Fairwork Aust (the industrial authority) is loaded with union bosses:- far from impartial.
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:11 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Blackcloud View Post
This will force Government invention and likely the begining of the end of AJ.
There wil be a resolution but QF brand has now been severely damaged.
Agree this is an end move that will end very badly for at least one of the parties and probably both of them.

Originally Posted by haydensydney View Post
What a fantastic and bold move by an airline that has been besieged by a bunch of b!tchy unionists.

God I love a corporate cat fight. QF moved their piece into checkmate - good on them.

Remember what Qantas is able to do to their workers today is what your organisation will be able to do to you tomorrow. This dispute is not just about Qantas, it is about setting the standard for how workers will be treated for the next few years.

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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:13 am
  #58  
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Some interesting numbers:
Qantas said as of 0400GMT on Saturday, there were 64 aircraft in the air - 36 domestic and 28 international - carrying more than 7,000 passengers. In total 108 aircraft will be grounded in 22 airports around the world.

The airline said 13,305 passengers were booked to travel on Qantas planes from overseas airports to Australia in the next 24 hours. About 1,310 international passengers may be at international airports now waiting for their flights to depart.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15504838

Photo of the ticket counter at LAX via Twitter.
http://twitpic.com/77flvp

Last edited by tom911; Oct 29, 11 at 2:20 am
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:14 am
  #59  
 
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Originally Posted by chandi View Post
I got a call from QF about two weeks ago inquiring why I have not flown with them in in last quarter. I fly at least 2 x (JFK/LHR) each month and multiple domestic sectors. My reply was I am flying other carriers until the current uncertainty is sorted out.

I am assuming I am not alone in this.

I am normally sympathetic to union demands and have contributed significantly to past campaigns such as the anti-work choices campaign. But I also understand economics.

By far QF pilots are the best paid in the world. In some cases they are paid double the wage+allowances (take home cash) than airlines competing on the same route. For example SQ A380 pilots earn around $SG 200k while the same QF pilot earns well over $400k in salary plus allowances.

US Pilots earn significantly less with domestic pilots earning as little as $USD 18k

Even though I do not think Alan Joyce is the the best person for the job the high labour costs have very little is not a problem of his own making. Successive QF CEO's have passed on this problem until it has to be faced now.

This in many ways different from the US airlines having to renegotiate their labour contracts in the last few years. The difference is the US airlines waited until chapter 11 bankruptcy to do this and by waiting destroyed all the shareholder equity in the business. With this in mind I am not surprised 96% of the shareholders backed a restructures now rather than waiting for administration. At least today they are looking like they may get 30c-40c in the dollar invested 5 years ago. In administration they are likely to see zero.



Interesting that the unions are all for VA. But VA pays significantly less for pilots and even the recent 28% pay increase still leaves them being paid less than QF union pilots.

May be if AIPA pilots (QF) offered to work under the same terms as the VIPA pilots (QF) they would have more public support.

Either way if QF goes out if business the people to loose out would be the employees and shareholders.

As for us customers there will always be another airline.
Great point!

Indeifnite is a long time to ground fleet though...Looks like QF is preapared until 15th november...Not knowing what after...
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Old Oct 29, 11, 2:15 am
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by Hvr View Post
QF seems to be planning for a long stoppage. From the QF site:
They would have to. They have no idea how long it will take the government to get involved and everything sorted out.

The pilots union is complaining about the short haul pilots are getting dragged into something they weren't part of... well how do they expect to operate short haul flights when you have a pilot, but no baggage, catering or engineers to prep the aircraft for the flight?
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