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-   -   Heathrow - Terminal 5 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qantas-frequent-flyer/1267435-heathrow-terminal-5-a.html)

reubee Oct 9, 11 3:24 pm

Heathrow - Terminal 5
 
Tried to access the BA lounge at Terminal 5 using my Qantas Club card but got refused, the door nazi had a laminated card which said Qantas Club didn't get you access.

Checking the Qantas website, my interpretation is I should've been allowed in ...


In addition to Qantas Club lounges, you can relax in British Airways lounges (Terraces and Executive Club lounges) and American Airlines® Admirals Club lounges.

To access a partner airline lounge, simply present your Qantas Club card or Platinum or Gold Frequent Flyer card at check-in and again with your boarding pass at the lounge reception. You may also invite a guest. Note: both you and your guest must be travelling together and have onward travel that day on a flight marketed and operated by the partner airline whose lounge you wish to visit
... what have I misinterpreted. The fact that the BA staff had a laminated card they could stuff in my face suggests I wasn't the first person to try.

Dave Noble Oct 9, 11 4:24 pm

Unless things have changed, my understanding is that you can use the BA Business class lounges when departing on BA

Assuming that your flight was departing from T5, I don't know why you would be refused access from the business lounge

bugayev Oct 9, 11 4:30 pm

Which lounge was it (as in Terraces, Exec, Concorde Room, Galleries First)

number_6 Oct 9, 11 4:50 pm


Originally Posted by Dave Noble (Post 17246160)
Unless things have changed, my understanding is that you can use the BA Business class lounges when departing on BA

Assuming that your flight was departing from T5, I don't know why you would be refused access from the business lounge

Lots of reasons, my guess is OP was flying QF codeshare on BA -- hence no access to BA Terraces and EC lounges using QP card, as not flying BA :) Given the laminated card, it sounds like policy and not an error. Gotta love the BA/JF relationship, it gives Joint Service a new meaning.

Globaliser Oct 9, 11 5:23 pm


Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17246235)
Lots of reasons, my guess is OP was flying QF codeshare on BA ...

If that's how the phrase "marketed and operated by" is interpreted in that case, I agree with your take on the meaning of "service".

If that's the reason, I wonder if there is any sound commercial reason behind the policy?

amaroo Oct 9, 11 9:21 pm

For an uninitiated traveller, lounge access can be harder to work out than a rubix cube :confused:

number_6 Oct 10, 11 12:35 am


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17246340)
If that's how the phrase "marketed and operated by" is interpreted in that case, I agree with your take on the meaning of "service".

If that's the reason, I wonder if there is any sound commercial reason behind the policy?

Sure, the reason is simple: revenue. Most BA flights leaving T5 are not part of the JSA with QF (in fact I suspect all of them are in that category), so if sold as QF codeshare then QF gets 100% of the revenue, while sold as BA then BA gets the money. Thus BA wanting to provide incentive for pax to buy the BA code and not the QF codeshare for these flights. QF either doesn't care, or had worse lawyers than BA when the QP card agreement was penned.

Globaliser Oct 10, 11 3:54 am


Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17247731)
Sure, the reason is simple: revenue. Most BA flights leaving T5 are not part of the JSA with QF (in fact I suspect all of them are in that category), so if sold as QF codeshare then QF gets 100% of the revenue, while sold as BA then BA gets the money.

I'm not sure I'm following this. If QF sells a non-JSA flight operated by BA, it takes 100% of the ticket price from the passenger and it's the contracting airline in relation to the passenger. But QF must pay BA for carrying the passenger; BA won't be doing it for free!

BA-Flyer Oct 10, 11 5:22 am

This has been mentioned before on the BA board. Previous feedback was that access should have been granted. However, a laminated card does indeed suggest a change in policy.

The Qantas website states that you can access British Airways Terraces & Executive Club lounges. When Terminal 5 opened, BA introduced a new style of lounge, known as Galleries. Terraces lounges are being phased out, so perhaps Qantas Club access is going out with them?

Globaliser Oct 10, 11 5:39 am


Originally Posted by BA-Flyer (Post 17248275)
The Qantas website states that you can access British Airways Terraces & Executive Club lounges. When Terminal 5 opened, BA introduced a new style of lounge, known as Galleries. Terraces lounges are being phased out, so perhaps Qantas Club access is going out with them?

A friend whose lounge access is purely by Qantas Club has had no difficulty in getting access to T5 Galleries lounges, so I don't think that this can be it.

thadocta Oct 10, 11 6:41 am

As with all things in this game, if you don't like the answer you get, ask someone else. There are two lounges in T5A and another one in T5B (none in T5C though) - if a problem at one of the T5A lounges, try the other one (don't try T5B though until it is confirmed your flight is leaving from T5B or T5C).

Dave

number_6 Oct 10, 11 3:12 pm


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17248104)
I'm not sure I'm following this. If QF sells a non-JSA flight operated by BA, it takes 100% of the ticket price from the passenger and it's the contracting airline in relation to the passenger. But QF must pay BA for carrying the passenger; BA won't be doing it for free!

QF takes a cut (often >50%!) and BA would prefer to get that money, hence doing its best to make life difficult for codeshare pax, to encourage them to buy BA next time. Quite interesting how the codeshare relationship varies from airline to airline, some are friendly (even to the point of having superior service for the codeshare!) while others are hostile, and BA seems to be mostly in the latter. Quite strange given the close relationship between BA and QF, even close to controlling equity ownership in the past. Maybe the CEO of BA doesn't like the CEO of QF for some strange reason :) :) :)

number_6 Oct 10, 11 3:14 pm


Originally Posted by thadocta (Post 17248549)
As with all things in this game, if you don't like the answer you get, ask someone else. There are two lounges in T5A and another one in T5B (none in T5C though) - if a problem at one of the T5A lounges, try the other one (don't try T5B though until it is confirmed your flight is leaving from T5B or T5C).

Dave

I'd agree with this, except if it is a laminated card then it is strictly enforced policy and chances drop to close to zero ... a real devaluation of the value of QP if this policy is correct and sticks. At least status based lounge access is not affected (yet).

serfty Oct 10, 11 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by reubee (Post 17245879)
Tried to access the BA lounge at Terminal 5 using my Qantas Club card but got refused, the door nazi had a laminated card which said Qantas Club didn't get you access.

Checking the Qantas website, my interpretation is I should've been allowed in ...

... what have I misinterpreted. The fact that the BA staff had a laminated card they could stuff in my face suggests I wasn't the first person to try.

What flight number were you on?

If it was a BA flight number on BA metalthen something is wrong somewhere and I would be complaining to the Qantas Club management.

Globaliser Oct 10, 11 3:59 pm


Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17251290)
QF takes a cut (often >50%!) and BA would prefer to get that money, hence doing its best to make life difficult for codeshare pax, to encourage them to buy BA next time.

I can see the argument. But I'm not convinced, though, that BA would necessarily be getting more money if the pax was booking direct. Especially on the short-haul feeders, there are often some stonking bargains to be had!

It would nevertheless be good to hear back from the OP about exactly what was going on. And possibly to find out just what is on this laminated card.

Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17251290)
Quite strange given the close relationship between BA and QF, even close to controlling equity ownership in the past. Maybe the CEO of BA doesn't like the CEO of QF for some strange reason

It wouldn't be any problem with the current BA CEO, who's hardly got his feet under his desk yet.

The BA/QF relationship has been very odd over the years. Given QF's current problems, I've often wondered what the world would look like if the merger had gone ahead. It could have been a dream team for me. But there were lots of QF issues too, not least a hostile public who see QF as untouchably Australian (a view being played on by the engineers and the pilots in turn).

serfty Oct 10, 11 4:45 pm

I note that T5 is not indicated here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...rope/global/en

However, the following indicates access should have been available: (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...lobal/en#jump1)

http://www.qantas.com.au/img/_red08/...h2/generic.pngAccess to Partner airline lounges

In addition to Qantas Club lounges, you can relax in British Airways lounges (Terraces and Executive Club lounges) and American Airlines® Admirals Club lounges.

To access a partner airline lounge, simply present your Qantas Club card or Platinum or Gold Frequent Flyer card at check-in and again with your boarding pass at the lounge reception. You may also invite a guest. Note: both you and your guest must be travelling together and have onward travel that day on a flight marketed and operated by the partner airline whose lounge you wish to visit.***

http://www.qantas.com.au/img/_red08/...xclamation.gif*** Marketed and operated means a flight operated by the same airline whose flight number appears on your ticket. Includes American Airlines® or British Airways operated flights with a 'QF' flight number on your ticket.
Of course, this can change with little notice: (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...lobal/en#jump9)

10.8 Entry to Partner Lounges and associated lounges is subject to the individual lounge operator's entry conditions and space availability. The restriction of a maximum of one guest per Member applies, unless otherwise determined by the lounge operator.

10.9 Access policies for the use of Partner Lounge and associated lounges may vary between lounges. Current information can be obtained from the Qantas Club Service Centre.

Globaliser Oct 10, 11 4:52 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17251800)
I note that T5 is not indicated here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...rope/global/en

I think that part of the website is supposed to indicate lounges for QF-operated flights - hence LHR T3 but not LHR T5, and http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...rica/global/en lists only HNL, LAX, JFK and DFW.

The "BA lounge for BA flights" access is generally covered by http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...lobal/en#jump1 but that's now woefully out of date.

However, I note the footnote to this:

*** Marketed and operated means a flight operated by the same airline whose flight number appears on your ticket. Includes American Airlines® or British Airways operated flights with a 'QF' flight number on your ticket.
So this seems to indicate that "sold by QF, operated by BA" does qualify for access. And it makes the OP's experience more puzzling than ever.

amaroo Oct 10, 11 5:42 pm


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17251572)
But there were lots of QF issues too, not least a hostile public who see QF as untouchably Australian (a view being played on by the engineers and the pilots in turn).

Yeah, everyone is keen for it to be the Aussie own home grown airline.....right up to the point when they actually have to pull their wallet out to purchase a ticket.

That's when 82 people out of 100 decide their hard earn is better spent on other airlines for international departures leaving Australia.

I wonder how many of the remaining 18 passengers that fly QF are QF staff on cheapie tickets ;)

number_6 Oct 10, 11 6:52 pm


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17251572)
... And possibly to find out just what is on this laminated card....

Years ago BA did have a laminated lounge card which had pictures of all the Oneworld FF cards, showing Emerald and Sapphire plus the super-Emerald cards. That did show QF Silver card as being not eligible (something I know because the WP card was often confused with silver -- bad choice of colours by QF there!). Perhaps the chart has been extended to show WP card, as a non-OW status card (forgeting to mention the access rights). A bit absurd, but that sounds rather BA to me.

Globaliser Oct 11, 11 3:28 am


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17251513)
If it was a BA flight number on BA metalthen something is wrong somewhere and I would be complaining to the Qantas Club management.

The only other thing I can think of, given the OP's generic reference to "the BA lounge", is that the OP was trying to get access to the Concorde Room when not flying First, or to the Galleries First lounge in the South lounge complex. IIRC, Qantas Club access is only to Galleries Club lounges.

That might explain the reference to a laminated card, which might accurately show that a Qantas Club member is not entitled to use Galleries First (or the Concorde Room), but is entitled to use Galleries Club.

If a card was consulted, I find it hard to imagine that the lounge staff would not redirect the person to the Galleries Club lounge upstairs, in the same way that they routinely redirect Club passengers and Silver/Sapphire card holders upstairs; and (if this possibility reflects what actually happened) I would wonder whether we have been told the full story here.

serfty Oct 11, 11 4:41 am

I guess we'll just have to wait until the OP advises of the flight number and the lounge.

reubee Oct 11, 11 3:56 pm

I was on a BA flight to ORY (although it did have a QF code-share which I'll have to admonish my travel agent over). The lounge was in terminal 5A at the northern end (I just followed the lounge sides after getting through security).

If I had been in the wrong place, I would've been expected to be directed elsewhere, however to be shown a laminated card said to me that I wasn't the first to have this happen.

Globaliser Oct 11, 11 4:02 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17251800)
Of course, this can change with little notice: (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...lobal/en#jump9)

10.8 Entry to Partner Lounges and associated lounges is subject to the individual lounge operator's entry conditions and space availability. The restriction of a maximum of one guest per Member applies, unless otherwise determined by the lounge operator.

10.9 Access policies for the use of Partner Lounge and associated lounges may vary between lounges. Current information can be obtained from the Qantas Club Service Centre.


Originally Posted by reubee (Post 17257519)
I was on a BA flight to ORY (although it did have a QF code-share which I'll have to admonish my travel agent over). The lounge was in terminal 5A at the northern end (I just followed the lounge sides after getting through security).

Then it sounds like this needs to be taken up with Qantas. The QF website appears to be promising something that isn't being delivered at T5, and if there has been some recent change it ought to be reflected on the QF website. The T5 lounges must serve a third or so of all BA's worldwide departures (not all of which depart from stations served by BA lounges in any event), so saying that you can use BA lounges when on a BA or QF marketed flight operated by BA is pretty misleading.

I would be interested to know what response you get.

nonce Oct 11, 11 5:17 pm

T5 North has 3 BA lounges, Concorde, First and Club. Which lounge did you try and access?

Globaliser Oct 11, 11 5:21 pm

Wrong end: they comprise the south lounge complex.

The north end has only one lounge, a Galleries Club on the same level as security.

BD1959 Oct 11, 11 7:15 pm


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17257552)
I would be interested to know what response you get.

So would I ... Particularly if my bought QP membership has been diluted further without a price reduction!

BD

catandmouse Oct 12, 11 1:33 am


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17257932)
Wrong end: they comprise the south lounge complex.

The north end has only one lounge, a Galleries Club on the same level as security.

And if the OP had gone through Flight Connections, which sounds like being the case, he would go through Security North and logically end up at Galleries Club North.

number_6 Oct 12, 11 5:18 am


Originally Posted by BD1959 (Post 17258442)
So would I ... Particularly if my bought QP membership has been diluted further without a price reduction!

There is no dilution, merely an enforcement of the previously announced benefit, well documented as requiring BA marketed and operated flight to get BA lounge access. The informal benefit of access on QF codeshares was nice while it lasted, but to say that enforcing the T&Cs as documented is a dilution is a bit much! While I agree that it is a bit absurd for QP having no lounge access for a QF flight while having access for BA, but them's the rules and most on FT know the nuances when buying these products. Interesting that the status based lounge access is more generous than the paid lounge access.

thadocta Oct 12, 11 5:27 am


Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17260188)
There is no dilution, merely an enforcement of the previously announced benefit, well documented as requiring BA marketed and operated flight to get BA lounge access. The informal benefit of access on QF codeshares was nice while it lasted,

It wasn't informal, it was documented, as highlighted earlier in this thread.

Dave

Traveloguy Oct 12, 11 2:53 pm

I'm actually shocked to see what is being posted in this thread.

Firstly, I know of several friends who are still using a QF Club card to access BA J lounges in T5. No changes have recently taken place that I am aware of, so I am surprised by a number of posts in this thread.

This is very obviously a case of a BA agent not knowing their arse from their elbow. Suggest the OP contact QF customer relations and report the issue to help ensure it does not happen again. All this conjecture about things that are not true are probably just making the OP dizzy rather than pointing out the more likely cause. If the OP went to a BA J lounge (travelling on a BA or QF code) and handed over their QF Club card, they are of course entitled to access it.

Dave Noble Oct 12, 11 3:29 pm


Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 17263132)
I'm actually shocked to see what is being posted in this thread.

Firstly, I know of several friends who are still using a QF Club card to access BA J lounges in T5. No changes have recently taken place that I am aware of, so I am surprised by a number of posts in this thread.

This is very obviously a case of a BA agent not knowing their arse from their elbow. Suggest the OP contact QF customer relations and report the issue to help ensure it does not happen again. All this conjecture about things that are not true are probably just making the OP dizzy rather than pointing out the more likely cause. If the OP went to a BA J lounge (travelling on a BA or QF code) and handed over their QF Club card, they are of course entitled to access it.

Indeed. I am not aware of any change to the rules ; admitedly since T5 is BA only , I inadvertantly forgot to allow for potential that the OP was on a codeshare flight and could be denied based on that

I would check with QFF but as long as

on BA or QF flight number
and
trying to access busines lounge ( not 1st class lounge or Concorde Room )

Qantas Club membership should afford access

serfty Oct 12, 11 4:59 pm


Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17260188)
There is no dilution, merely an enforcement of the previously announced benefit, well documented as requiring BA marketed and operated flight to get BA lounge access. The informal benefit of access on QF codeshares was nice while it lasted, but to say that enforcing the T&Cs as documented is a dilution is a bit much! ...

Ummm ... have you read this thread?

Particularly posts #16 & #17 which have direct link to access rights and/or the actual text: (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...irline lounges)


http://www.qantas.com.au/img/_red08/...h2/generic.pngAccess to Partner airline lounges

In addition to Qantas Club lounges, you can relax in British Airways lounges (Terraces and Executive Club lounges) and American Airlines® Admirals Club lounges.

To access a partner airline lounge, simply present your Qantas Club card or Platinum or Gold Frequent Flyer card at check-in and again with your boarding pass at the lounge reception. You may also invite a guest. Note: both you and your guest must be travelling together and have onward travel that day on a flight marketed and operated by the partner airline whose lounge you wish to visit.***

http://www.qantas.com.au/img/_red08/...xclamation.gif*** Marketed and operated means a flight operated by the same airline whose flight number appears on your ticket. Includes American Airlines® or British Airways operated flights with a 'QF' flight number on your ticket.

BD1959 Oct 12, 11 5:00 pm


Originally Posted by number_6 (Post 17260188)
There is no dilution, merely an enforcement of the previously announced benefit, well documented as requiring BA marketed and operated flight to get BA lounge access. The informal benefit of access on QF codeshares was nice while it lasted, but to say that enforcing the T&Cs as documented is a dilution is a bit much! While I agree that it is a bit absurd for QP having no lounge access for a QF flight while having access for BA, but them's the rules and most on FT know the nuances when buying these products. Interesting that the status based lounge access is more generous than the paid lounge access.


From the QC Website:
Access to Partner airline lounges
In addition to Qantas Club lounges, you can relax in British Airways lounges (Terraces and Executive Club lounges) and American Airlines® Admirals Club lounges.

To access a partner airline lounge, simply present your Qantas Club card or Platinum or Gold Frequent Flyer card at check-in and again with your boarding pass at the lounge reception. You may also invite a guest. Note: both you and your guest must be travelling together and have onward travel that day on a flight marketed and operated by the partner airline whose lounge you wish to visit.***

*** Marketed and operated means a flight operated by the same airline whose flight number appears on your ticket. Includes American Airlines® or British Airways operated flights with a 'QF' flight number on your ticket. (my bolding)]
The OP was attempting to gain access to a BA (partner) lounge where BA operated the flight with a QF flight number on the OP's ticket.

If this benefit is no longer available then it is a dilution of benefits and the Qantas wesite should be updated accordingly.

BD

Traveloguy Oct 12, 11 5:04 pm


Originally Posted by BD1959 (Post 17263903)
From the [URL="http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/qantas-club-lounge-access/global/en"]If this benefit is no longer available then it is a dilution of benefits and the Qantas wesite should be updated accordingly.

BD

See above. Many of us don't believe the benefit has been removed - simply a bad agent. This thread has effectively become a storm in a tea cup!

BD1959 Oct 12, 11 5:12 pm


Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 17263925)
See above. Many of us don't believe the benefit has been removed - simply a bad agent. This thread has effectively become a storm in a tea cup!


Hi Traveloguy, I'm tempted to agree in all aspects except that the OP states that the Agent referred to a laminated card. There used to be a thread with a link to a scan of such a "cheat sheet" which, IIRC, included the Qantas Club card.

If the cheat-sheet now used by BA Agents no longer includes the QC card, then we can hardly blame a "bad agent" or exepect it won't happen again in future.

I suggest this really needs to be followed-up with Qantas by the OP.

Regards.

BD

serfty Oct 12, 11 5:53 pm


Originally Posted by BD1959 (Post 17263976)
Hi Traveloguy, I'm tempted to agree in all aspects except that the OP states that the Agent referred to a laminated card. There used to be a thread with a link to a scan of such a "cheat sheet" which, IIRC, included the Qantas Club card.

If the cheat-sheet now used by BA Agents no longer includes the QC card, then we can hardly blame a "bad agent" or exepect it won't happen again in future. ...

The OP specifically posted:

Originally Posted by reubee (Post 17245879)
Tried to access the BA lounge at Terminal 5 using my Qantas Club card but got refused, the door nazi had a laminated card which said Qantas Club didn't get you access. ...

To me it would generally make more sense for the door nazi to have a list of "inclusions" than it would to have a list of "exclusions".

Either things have changed without being publicised or there is a door agent retraining opportunity.

I really hope the OP follows this up with Qantas and reports back here on the results.

Traveloguy Oct 13, 11 3:01 am


Originally Posted by BD1959 (Post 17263976)
Hi Traveloguy, I'm tempted to agree in all aspects except that the OP states that the Agent referred to a laminated card. There used to be a thread with a link to a scan of such a "cheat sheet" which, IIRC, included the Qantas Club card.

If the cheat-sheet now used by BA Agents no longer includes the QC card, then we can hardly blame a "bad agent" or exepect it won't happen again in future.

I suggest this really needs to be followed-up with Qantas by the OP.

Regards.

BD

All I can add to that is that one should remember that the QC and QF bronze cards look fairly similar. :)

Again, if I were a betting man, my money is on an agent having a bad day.

serfty Oct 13, 11 3:13 am


Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 17266228)
All I can add to that is that one should remember that the QC and QF bronze cards look fairly similar. :)

Again, if I were a betting man, my money is on an agent having a bad day.

AHA! I think you've pinned it!

Pick the QP card:

http://www.qantas.com.au/img/page_gr...ard_bronze.gif http://www.qantas.com.au/img/page_gr...g_qc_cards.jpg

VH-RMD Oct 13, 11 3:43 am


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17266248)

perhaps Qantas should consider returning the QC cards to blue?

amaroo Oct 13, 11 3:57 am


Originally Posted by VH-RMD (Post 17266310)
perhaps Qantas should consider returning the QC cards to blue?

That's going to cause problems - no way staff from another airline on the other side of the world is going to pick the difference.


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