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davidMEL Oct 24, 2011 3:46 pm


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 17325538)
Of course, we shouldn't forget that this may not be a QFFF problem. We don't know who initiated any change, nor for what reasons.

I tried to enter the T5 lounge using my Qantas Club card on 9th October and was told it was the last day BA would allow it. When I asked why, the guy on the desk said that "Qantas doesn't want to pay for it anymore". He then went onto explain that "Qantas now only wants to pay for lounge access for its passengers flying on its own planes out of T3."

I am more than annoyed about this. I renewed my QC membership in September and specifically mentioned to the woman over the phone that i was doing a lot of travel on BA out of London in the coming months and that I wanted the card delivered quickly in order to be able to use the lounges. At no time did she say that the card would no longer be of use in London. Indeed, she said she would send it as fast as possible precisely so that i could use it.

This, together with the apparent halving of QF services out of London, will cause me to open a BA account and I can't see myself flying QF on my long-haul trips from London to Australia ever again. The prospect of lifetime Gold was the only thing keeping me flying QF, but this unannounced change has sent me over the edge. Vale Qantas.

Blackcloud Oct 24, 2011 3:55 pm

While this is not a QFF issue this is an absolutely pathetic move by QF.
I can believe that QF would be so short sighted in aggrevating its passengers from this move, judging by recent messages.
Why would a QP now want to fly QF to Europe contacting via LHR?:td:
QF need to sort this out and either specifically have this on their QP T&C or even better announce this in an email under "Enhancing the Qantas Club Value".:mad:
Should someone want to send Red Roo an message via AFF, as he clearly does not look at this site too often.

serfty Oct 24, 2011 4:00 pm

Thinking more, consider a UK/EU resident who travels BA return in 'traveller' across the Channel once or twice a month.

This would not be enough travel to earn sapphire. As there is no paid lounge access with BA (COS or Status only) they join QP via their "Uncle's" address in Adelaide.

Bingo, if galleries access was available they then have lounge access ex UK.

Maybe such was significantly affecting the QP bottom line?

Blackcloud Oct 24, 2011 4:03 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17328948)
Thinking more, consider a UK/EU resident who travels BA return in 'traveller' across the Channel once or twice a month.

This would not be enough travel to earn sapphire. As there is no paid lounge access with BA (COS or Status only) they join QP via their "Uncle's" address in Adelaide.

Bingo, if galleries access was available they then have lounge access ex UK.

Really no different to what an US based pax can have, admittedly AA offers paid AC membership.
QF should be honest and upfront about BA Lounge access, it is disappearing due to a rebranding/upgrading exercise.:td:

Globaliser Oct 24, 2011 4:10 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17328948)
Thinking more, consider a UK/EU resident who travels BA return in 'traveller' across the Channel once or twice a month.

This would not be enough travel to earn sapphire. As there is no paid lounge access with BA (COS or Status only) they join QP via their "Uncle's" address in Adelaide.

Bingo, if galleries access was available they then have lounge access ex UK.

This is how it always used to be, and you didn't (and don't) need an Australian address to join QP.

It wasn't have been taking advantage of either BA or QF, either, considering that you were paying QF and QF was paying BA when you visited. And QF got the halo effect - together with the knock-on effect (whenever travelling to QF territory) of the oneworld loyalty that all that BA flying was likely to engender.

PWOZUK Oct 24, 2011 4:41 pm

QC BA Lounge Access
 
This would appear to a retrograde step for QF AND BA

Since there appear to be only two or three "Terraces" lounges left in the UK , the QC T&C are left looking like a marketing con. Of course Qantas have not been obliged to tell you of any change, since they haven't changed the T&C, and it's BA who have remarketed the BA lounges. But it still gets my :td:

It's a retrograde step for BA as well, as they will find us expats looking elsewhere for our European and UK/USA travel. Surely loss of flight revenue will hurt more than loss of lounge access revenue from Qantas.

And once the new BA/QF schedules to AUS post March 2012 hit, and you want to go via HKG or BKK (which will mean BA metal ex UK and QF metal ex Aus), this presumably means you can have lounge access as you depart Australia but not the UK.

I'd like to think this was all a dream ... and wasn't true.

Himeno Oct 24, 2011 5:11 pm

Is this just a Qantas Club issue, or does it effect QF Gold and Platium as well?

Though I guess that the SG/WP is covered under OW rules where as QP isn't.

Blackcloud Oct 24, 2011 5:29 pm


Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 17329304)
Is this just a Qantas Club issue, or does it effect QF Gold and Platium as well?

Though I guess that the SG/WP is covered under OW rules where as QP isn't.

It is a QP issue as you pointed out the OW benefits are for Gold and the various Platinums.

Princess fiona Oct 24, 2011 7:06 pm

As of now it looks like the only lounges in the UK accessible by Qantas Club members will be LHR T3 if departing on QF/BA ( as before) and Jersey, Newcastle and Manchester airports as these lounges are Terraces lounges as per the QF T&C's

BD1959 Oct 24, 2011 7:07 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17325053)
About 20 minutes later I received a telephone call with further advice. To paraphrase:
  • QP membership based access to T5 Galleries has never been a benefit.
  • For those QP members that has been allowed access to T5 Galleries, they should not have been permitted entry.
  • This non access is now being enforced.

If this has always been the case, perhaps QF might like to explain why access was listed as a benefit back in 2010 when flying on BA out of T5 ....

9. Is airport lounge access available?
Lounge access is available to the following Qantas passengers:
- passengers travelling in business class
- passengers with an eligible oneworld status (in BA or oneworld carrier owned and
operated lounges)
- Qantas Club cardholders (in BA or oneworld carrier owned and operated lounges)

See Qantas and British Airways Codeshare Expansion FAQs.

Regards,

BD

perthite Oct 24, 2011 7:19 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 17325640)
I guess the web site is not explicit.

It states access to BA lounges ("terraces"/"Business") before BA flights.

It does not state NO access to BA Galleries lounges before BA flights.

Ahh, I see. It says access to "Executive Club lounge", when there is not actually anything called an "Executive club lounge". If they are stating such access when no such thing exists, then they may have a case to answer.

Although looking though the lounge locations there are three 'executive club lounges' scattered around the world.

tuapekastar Oct 24, 2011 9:30 pm

A very disappointing development. If, as stated, it was 'never a benefit' then how did they get it wrong for so long? QF has the right to do whatever it likes with QC and its benefits, and will always push as far as they can to save money. And equally, QC members have the right to say 'I don't like this', and let the membership lapse and fly with other airlines.

And it will surely come back and bite them on the bum at some stage should they keep 'enhancing' it this way (even now with this 'enhancement' I would not be surprised if they lose some memberships/custom).

Traveloguy Oct 25, 2011 12:40 am


Originally Posted by BD1959 (Post 17329817)
If this has always been the case, perhaps QF might like to explain why access was listed as a benefit back in 2010 when flying on BA out of T5 ....

9. Is airport lounge access available?
Lounge access is available to the following Qantas passengers:
- passengers travelling in business class
- passengers with an eligible oneworld status (in BA or oneworld carrier owned and
operated lounges)
- Qantas Club cardholders (in BA or oneworld carrier owned and operated lounges)

See Qantas and British Airways Codeshare Expansion FAQs.

Regards,

BD

Not to mention the fact that QF routinely sell tickets ex LHR (T5) to route passengers to Asia and Australia via FRA using BA for the first hop out of LHR.

This is very obviously a recent negative development. As mentioned many of us either use or have friends/family who have had access to BA lounges at T5 up until very recently. Lest we forget that many BA lounges across the globe are now Galleries too, so this in fact a rather major negative development.

I've ping'ed Red Roo, although based on our previous experience, I think we know s/he only comes on here when s/he wants to annouce something. I therefore don't have high hopes of him/her clarifying anything as QF obviously is not interested in properly getting involved in social media.

reubee Oct 25, 2011 3:34 am

Curious I did some more digging. I found this from 2008 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...ss-hoo-ha.html
someone else had the same issue that I did.


... there is one way that access could legitimately be denied. The terms and conditions state that Qantas Club allows access to "British Airways lounges (Terraces and Executive Club lounges)". The cheat-sheet that Fraser linked to also refers to "Terraces/Executive Club Lounge". Perhaps BA could argue that "Galleries" lounges are not covered by the agreement.
Even back in 2008, QF/BA had the same sneaky wording to include certain lounges and exclude the Galleries lounge.

Imagine if it was the other way round and BA equivalents had access to QF lounges, except at SYD/MEL domestic.

bugayev Oct 25, 2011 4:02 am


Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 17330908)
I've ping'ed Red Roo, although based on our previous experience, I think we know s/he only comes on here when s/he wants to annouce something. I therefore don't have high hopes of him/her clarifying anything as QF obviously is not interested in properly getting involved in social media.

Actually, I disagree with this statement. Red Roo has demonstrated a strong willingness to participate in discussion on AFF, but for some reason I guess QF do not see the same return on discussion occurring here on FT.

moa999 Oct 25, 2011 5:02 am

There is a similar thread on AFF with similar response and lack of response.
Give RedRoo some time - if this is an intended/unintended consequence am sure he/she will want to confirm things before commenting.

But I agree if this is true this is another massive negative for any QP members choosing to transit LHR with QF which is already a hard decision given the LHR transit.

flashware Oct 25, 2011 5:04 am


Originally Posted by moa999 (Post 17331428)
There is a similar thread on AFF with similar response and lack of response.
Give RedRoo some time - if this is an intended/unintended consequence am sure he/she will want to confirm things before commenting.

But I agree if this is true this is another massive negative for any QP members choosing to transit LHR with QF which is already a hard decision given the LHR transit.

I wouldn't hold my breath...

Globaliser Oct 25, 2011 5:49 am


Originally Posted by reubee (Post 17331239)
Curious I did some more digging. I found this from 2008 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...ss-hoo-ha.html someone else had the same issue that I did.

Good spot.

Although this post also confirms that BA was officially allowing access at that time:-

Originally Posted by adrianjc32 (Post 9684533)
The lounge system now checks the flight status, the volume of passengers in the lounges and the class or status of the passengers. It then states if there is a problem with access or confirms access. The problem with QF Club is that it is not a true card in the alliance, so QF assign it a QF Silver account which comes up in the system as Ruby. Staff need to overide it and allow access and the laminated guides on every access point tells them this.


Princess fiona Oct 25, 2011 5:25 pm

I sent off an email to QF Customer care and an agent called me 10 minutes later ( something of a record I think).
Basically she said that QF only became aware of the problem when members started contacting them. They are now aware and QF Senior Management is talking with BA. They realise that the nomenclature of Lounges ( galleries/ terraces) is an issue and as soon as they have a resolution they will update the website.

AussiePeter Oct 25, 2011 5:29 pm

I was declined access to the Southern lounge in T5 (that I'd been in 6 weeks earlier) on the 18th, the dragon waving around a laminated *do not allow* A4. Apparently the only one QClubbers get is T3, Qantas to Sydney. This could be awkward with the way they've played with the routing.

How I laughed, I'm paid up until 2014.

If anybody closer to home is pursuing this, please post.

AussiePete

I hasten to add that the lounge in Frankfurt still works.

og Oct 25, 2011 5:29 pm


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17335292)
I sent off an email to QF Customer care and an agent called me 10 minutes later ( something of a record I think).
Basically she said that QF only became aware of the problem when members started contacting them. They are now aware and QF Senior Management is talking with BA. They realise that the nomenclature of Lounges ( galleries/ terraces) is an issue and as soon as they have a resolution they will update the website.

Thanks for this. It also answers the question of whether QF monitors this web site with any degree of detail. I assume they do not since they would / could have made comment via Red Roo that they were working on a solution.

Princess fiona Oct 25, 2011 5:50 pm


Originally Posted by og (Post 17335310)
Thanks for this. It also answers the question of whether QF monitors this web site with any degree of detail. I assume they do not since they would / could have made comment via Red Roo that they were working on a solution.

They haven't said anything on AFF either :td:
What I think happened was:
BA decides to tighten up ( ie. remove) Lounge access for QP to its Galleries Lounges as some clever d!ck has noticed that its not in the QF T&C's
They don't tell QF and hope that they won't notice.
Members start to complain to QF and upon reading their own T&C's QF realize that strictly speaking BA is correct.
QF decide initially to tell everyone that BA is correct.
Many more people complain and QF decide if they don't do something the Qantas Club will be as useful as Lifetime Golden Wings

perthite Oct 25, 2011 6:24 pm


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17335382)
BA decides to tighten up ( ie. remove) Lounge access for QP to its Galleries Lounges as some clever d!ck has noticed that its not in the QF T&C's

It would not surprise me if by Clever Dick, you actuall mean An Auditor.

BD1959 Oct 25, 2011 6:34 pm


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17335382)
What I think happened was:
BA decides to tighten up ( ie. remove) Lounge access for QP to its Galleries Lounges as some clever d!ck has noticed that its not in the QF T&C's
They don't tell QF and hope that they won't notice.
Members start to complain to QF and upon reading their own T&C's QF realize that strictly speaking BA is correct.
QF decide initially to tell everyone that BA is correct.
Many more people complain and QF decide if they don't do something the Qantas Club will be as useful as Lifetime Golden Wings

I certainly hope your reading of the situation is incorrect - though I would obviously like the end result to be back to the previous service level.

Given the "strengthening of the JSA" which was promised by Mr Joyce as part of the "revamping" of the LHR services, regardless of the eventual outcome, this episode certainly does not bode well for that relationship/agreement going forward - whoever is responsible.

You'd have thought that, given the current climate at QF, their Management woiuld be doing all it could to proactively maintain the brand's reputation, particularly with those from whom they're looking to obtain discretionary spend.

Then again .... this "smells" more like ongoing devaluing of the QC service offering. It will be interesting to see the final spin given some of the nonsense to date about "previous T5 access rules".

Regards,
BD

justin_krusty Oct 25, 2011 9:39 pm

I'm sure it's been mentioned before here, but it came as a surprise to me that from end of the month BA Spain flights are switching to T5 (and Bucharest, Budapest, Larnaca, Prague & Warsaw are moving to T3). This may affect some QP cardholders more than others...

goback Oct 25, 2011 9:47 pm


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17335382)
They haven't said anything on AFF either :td:
What I think happened was:
BA decides to tighten up ( ie. remove) Lounge access for QP to its Galleries Lounges as some clever d!ck has noticed that its not in the QF T&C's
They don't tell QF and hope that they won't notice.
Members start to complain to QF and upon reading their own T&C's QF realize that strictly speaking BA is correct.
QF decide initially to tell everyone that BA is correct.
Many more people complain and QF decide if they don't do something the Qantas Club will be as useful as Lifetime Golden Wings

This is my suspicion as well.

justin_krusty Oct 25, 2011 9:54 pm


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17335382)
What I think happened was:
BA decides to tighten up ( ie. remove) Lounge access for QP to its Galleries Lounges as some clever d!ck has noticed that its not in the QF T&C's
They don't tell QF and hope that they won't notice.
Members start to complain to QF and upon reading their own T&C's QF realize that strictly speaking BA is correct.
QF decide initially to tell everyone that BA is correct.
Many more people complain and QF decide if they don't do something the Qantas Club will be as useful as Lifetime Golden Wings

I agree, quite likely.

There may also be high level discussions going on over the JSA given the QF LHR withdrawals and BA decided to flex some muscle.

flashware Oct 25, 2011 10:56 pm


Originally Posted by BD1959 (Post 17335561)
I certainly hope your reading of the situation is incorrect - though I would obviously like the end result to be back to the previous service level.

Given the "strengthening of the JSA" which was promised by Mr Joyce as part of the "revamping" of the LHR services, regardless of the eventual outcome, this episode certainly does not bode well for that relationship/agreement going forward - whoever is responsible.

You'd have thought that, given the current climate at QF, their Management woiuld be doing all it could to proactively maintain the brand's reputation, particularly with those from whom they're looking to obtain discretionary spend.

Then again .... this "smells" more like ongoing devaluing of the QC service offering. It will be interesting to see the final spin given some of the nonsense to date about "previous T5 access rules".

Regards,
BD

So, who is going to contact Today Tonight / A Current Affair? :D

I guess I should do my part and at least raise the issue with QF, being LON based at the moment and having QP life membership.

BD1959 Oct 25, 2011 11:08 pm


Originally Posted by flashware (Post 17336659)
So, who is going to contact Today Tonight / A Current Affair? :D

They wouldn't be interested ... there's no diet or celeb book involved. :rolleyes:

BD

Princess fiona Oct 25, 2011 11:59 pm


Originally Posted by flashware (Post 17336659)
So, who is going to contact Today Tonight / A Current Affair? :D

Go on I dare you :p
I can see the headlines now:
Aussie battlers at Heathrow forced to buy their own Champagne and Canapes :D

pandaperth Oct 26, 2011 12:04 am


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17336811)
Go on I dare you :p
I can see the headlines now:
Aussie battlers at Heathrow forced to buy their own Champagne and Canapes :D

No no no Fiona

The headline would have to be "Pommie ba*#ta@ds at Heathrow force Aussie battlers to buy their own Champagne and Canapes"

flashware Oct 26, 2011 12:22 am


Originally Posted by Princess fiona (Post 17336811)
Go on I dare you :p
I can see the headlines now:
Aussie battlers at Heathrow forced to buy their own Champagne and Canapes :D


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 17336822)
No no no Fiona

The headline would have to be "Pommie ba*#ta@ds at Heathrow force Aussie battlers to buy their own Champagne and Canapes"

My comment was made in jest, but thanks for the laugh so early in the morning :D

Princess fiona Oct 26, 2011 12:29 am


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 17336822)
No no no Fiona

The headline would have to be "Pommie ba*#ta@ds at Heathrow force Aussie battlers to buy their own Champagne and Canapes"

Ok, you win ! ROTFLMAO :D

Traveloguy Oct 26, 2011 1:27 am


Originally Posted by justin_krusty (Post 17336480)
I agree, quite likely.

There may also be high level discussions going on over the JSA given the QF LHR withdrawals and BA decided to flex some muscle.

The JSA changes can be argued benefit both BA and QF as it helps with more efficient utilisation of their fleets. It does however mean that more JSA pax will commence journeys via BA in T5, especially once QF30 in its current form comes to a halt.

wheresmybagba Oct 26, 2011 1:30 am


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 17336822)
No no no Fiona

The headline would have to be "Pommie ba*#ta@ds at Heathrow force Aussie battlers to buy their own Champagne and Canapes"

No it's still not right...you need to get the F word in there somewhere...maybe FOREIGN chemical laden canapés!

BD1959 Oct 26, 2011 3:57 pm


Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 17337002)
The JSA changes can be argued benefit both BA and QF as it helps with more efficient utilisation of their fleets. It does however mean that more JSA pax will commence journeys via BA in T5, especially once QF30 in its current form comes to a halt.

The exemption (to allow collaboration) by the ACCC will be interesting next renewal since one of the prime reasons cited is to maintain the number of end-to-end flights between Australian and the UK. IIRC correctly, the removal of BA9 from SIN-MEL was countered by QF29 extending beyond HKG into LHR to abide by the JSA.

Now that BA and QF have slashed the number of end-to-end flights; QF is starting an Asia airline - in effect becoming their own mid-point carrier - the JSA was allowed, in part, to negate the advantages of mid-point carriers over the two end-point carriers.

Pertinent to this discussion is Mr Joyce's assertion that the changes being implemented next year "strengthen the JSA". If this is true, surely one of the underlying processes would be for the team which has been working to realign schedules, slots etc would also ensure that the overall passenger experience is not only undiminished next year, but actually exceeds the current experience. That may be through the provision of refurbished lounges in Hong Kong and Singapore, but should it not also ensure that the same rights of lounge access experienced at LHR prior to the removal of the two QF services is met by the introduction of any new BA service - if not exceeds (as in "strengthens")?

Surely, QF would be arguing (sorry - negotiating) that, given the level of lounge access at T4 when the JSA was originally implemented - this should be a minimum under any new arrangements.

Or do they just care about the amount of revenue they can glean by renting out their exisiting slots?

BD

serfty Oct 26, 2011 4:02 pm


Originally Posted by da.....L
I tried to enter the T5 lounge using my Qantas Club card on 9th October and was told it was the last day BA would allow it. When I asked why, the guy on the desk said that "Qantas doesn't want to pay for it anymore". He then went onto explain that "Qantas now only wants to pay for lounge access for its passengers flying on its own planes out of T3." ....
I have no doubt that Qantas were indeed paying for QP based access to T5 lounges (in spite of them being "Galleries").

Maybe BA put the prices up or a Qantas bean counter came up with this "great idea" ...

PWOZUK Oct 26, 2011 5:16 pm

My wife has just been invited to renew her QC membership, and I quote from the email

I hope you are enjoying your Qantas Club experience and that you'll take this opportunity to renew your membership.

As a member, you'll continue to enjoy:
- access to more than 130 Qantas Club, Qantas international Business Lounges, partner airline and associated lounges worldwide for your comfort and convenience;
Certainly no hint of any downgrade of service :rolleyes:

Page 36 of the July 2010 Benefits guidelines (QC3104Jul10 - the most recent one I've seen) specifically mentioned BA Galleries Club Lounge (Business) and Galleries First lounges located in Terminal 3 and Terminal 5

Of course the fine print on page 37 reads : Lounge Access and locations are subject to change without notice ....

danger Oct 26, 2011 6:23 pm


Originally Posted by PWOZUK (Post 17341574)
Page 36 of the July 2010 Benefits guidelines (QC3104Jul10 - the most recent one I've seen) specifically mentioned BA Galleries Club Lounge (Business) and Galleries First lounges located in Terminal 3 and Terminal 5

Of course the fine print on page 37 reads : Lounge Access and locations are subject to change without notice ....

I don't suppose you could post a scan of this section?

Princess fiona Oct 26, 2011 6:41 pm


Originally Posted by PWOZUK (Post 17341574)
My wife has just been invited to renew her QC membership, and I quote from the email


Certainly no hint of any downgrade of service :rolleyes:

Page 36 of the July 2010 Benefits guidelines (QC3104Jul10 - the most recent one I've seen) specifically mentioned BA Galleries Club Lounge (Business) and Galleries First lounges located in Terminal 3 and Terminal 5

Of course the fine print on page 37 reads : Lounge Access and locations are subject to change without notice ....

That's very interesting, especially as QF have been telling bewildered QC members that they haven't lost anything as access to T5 was never supposed to have been granted in the first place.
The whole things a dogs breakfast and the ominous silence by QF/Red Roo on the boards is a little worrying


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