Heathrow - Terminal 5

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Old Jan 11, 12, 11:46 pm
  #256  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
If UA membership is of value to someone, then maybe that will sway them to using Star, but in relation to the comment I replied to, the lack of BA lounge access may be annoying to some, but I cannot see it making any real impact to Qantas or OW
I suppose it comes down to the definition of "real impact". As it is Qantas' international business is lagging. Notwithstanding their new "Asian Strategy", the loss of a perceived value of flying Qantas will further erode their market share of international sectors.

I suppose, to truly understand the impact, one has to assess the extent of LHR as the final port of call of their customers. Or more importantly to understand the role of Qantas Club on the decision of passengers choosing to fly Qantas internationally. Strangely that question has never appeared on all the surverys that Qantas as sent me. I personally think its foolish to discount it.

However it would also be interesting to see the impact of Qantas Club membership fees on revenue. I presume this stream of income feeds into the highly profitable Frequent Flyer (FF) segment of their business. If membership drops due to the patchy BA access, how far will their FF business be affected?

In any case it seems like another nail in the coffin for Qantas international routes; Just when you think they've got it right with the A380 roll out.
I hope someone at Qantas is doing the maths and weighing up what BA is charging for Galleries use against possible drop in revenue. Incidentally, does anyone know what kind of dollar value we're talking about here? How I wish Wikileaks has info on this! LOL
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Old Jan 11, 12, 11:56 pm
  #257  
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Originally Posted by TheRealBabushka View Post
In any case it seems like another nail in the coffin for Qantas international routes; Just when you think they've got it right with the A380 roll out.
I hope someone at Qantas is doing the maths and weighing up what BA is charging for Galleries use against possible drop in revenue. Incidentally, does anyone know what kind of dollar value we're talking about here? How I wish Wikileaks has info on this! LOL
I have trouble seeing why; all it impacts are those choosing to fly BA onwards; there is no impact to those passengers actually flying on Qantas since there is no lounge access issues to T3 for Qantas ( or BA ) departures

Those flying Qantas to London and then continuing onwards will likely choose whatever airline is allowed by fare rules
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Old Jan 12, 12, 3:46 am
  #258  
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Originally Posted by TheRealBabushka View Post
Now unless someone from Qantas is prepared to fix this and work a deal with BA to allow Qantas Club member use of ALL Terrace, Executive and Galleries lounges, I fear there may be an exodus of frequent flyers to Star Alliance.
I doubt that this will have Qantas, BA or oneworld quaking in their boots, because those who are reliant on Qantas Club membership to access BA lounges are (almost by definition) unlikely to be high value/high frequency passengers.
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Old Jan 12, 12, 5:02 am
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Originally Posted by Globaliser View Post
I doubt that this will have Qantas, BA or oneworld quaking in their boots, because those who are reliant on Qantas Club membership to access BA lounges are (almost by definition) unlikely to be high value/high frequency passengers.
That's a good point which begs the question; Why then bother offering access to BA and AA lounges in the first place? A folly of the past that they can't seem to rectify?

Either this segment of the market is valued and therefore worth keeping or as suggested unlikely to be high value, in which case there is no justification on spending for full access to BA lounges. The logical conclusion would therefore be the elimination of access to BA/AA lounges altogether and retain Qantas Club as a purely domestic product.

This half way house approach is not logical. Especially when access is denied at LRH T5, the main transit point for Qantas' codeshare network in Europe. It seems to go against the intended spirit and design of the Qantas Club product.

Perhaps if BA is concerned that UK based pax are highjacking Qantas Club to get cheap access to BA lounges, there ought to be more focused caveats to restrict entry only to Qantas Club pax connecting from/to a QF flight (+/- X number of days for genuine stop overs in London for pax enroute from/to Europe)?
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Old Jan 12, 12, 5:57 am
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Originally Posted by TheRealBabushka View Post
That's a good point which begs the question; Why then bother offering access to BA and AA lounges in the first place? A folly of the past that they can't seem to rectify?

Either this segment of the market is valued and therefore worth keeping or as suggested unlikely to be high value, in which case there is no justification on spending for full access to BA lounges. The logical conclusion would therefore be the elimination of access to BA/AA lounges altogether and retain Qantas Club as a purely domestic product.

This half way house approach is not logical.
In relation to BA, the ability to access BA lounges has always seemed to me a bit of a windfall benefit. However, there was a time when BA and QF worked together more closely than they do now; the developing friction and tension over the years has been visible to many long-standing regulars of both airlines, even while the inception and development of OW made gaining status (and therefore lounge access) easier for high value/high frequency customers.

I think the arrangement makes more sense in relation to AA, where there is a true reciprocal relationship. That includes comparable sizes of establishments: 40+ Admirals Clubs and 30+ Qantas Clubs, according to the current AA page.
Originally Posted by TheRealBabushka View Post
Perhaps if BA is concerned that UK based pax are highjacking Qantas Club to get cheap access to BA lounges, there ought to be more focused caveats to restrict entry only to Qantas Club pax connecting from/to a QF flight (+/- X number of days for genuine stop overs in London for pax enroute from/to Europe)?
I've no idea what's being discussed between BA and QF, nor all of the policy considerations that each airline considers important (although we have collectively identified many potential issues in this thread). And obviously I have no idea what the outcome will be. But it wouldn't surprise me if the reason it's taking so long is that complex solutions along these lines are being proposed and discussed, but there has to be consultation with many departments inside BA to see whether/how they could be made to work.
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Old Jan 17, 12, 3:46 pm
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Just a reminder (not that anyone here has forgotten) that this issue has been rumbing on since at least October last year. My first hint was in GVA back in August 2011, when I was told that my Qantas Club card was not acceptable.

Time for QF (and BA) to come clean, and bring this to a conclusion.
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Old Jan 17, 12, 4:51 pm
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Originally Posted by PWOZUK View Post
Just a reminder (not that anyone here has forgotten) that this issue has been rumbing on since at least October last year. My first hint was in GVA back in August 2011, when I was told that my Qantas Club card was not acceptable.

Time for QF (and BA) to come clean, and bring this to a conclusion.
It will conclude when BA and QF conclude their discussions I expect; whether it ends up being a conclusion which benefits QF members or not will be another matter
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Old Jan 17, 12, 7:40 pm
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If they even are having discussions still... wouldn't be unlike QF to do nothing, stay silent, and hope everyone forgets about it.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 2:49 am
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
It will conclude when BA and QF conclude their discussions I expect ...
It would still be good if Red Roo could post here or on AFF just to say that discussions are still continuing. Red Roo's last AFF post was on 12 December, so it's been over 5 weeks now.
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Old Jan 21, 12, 5:23 am
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because those who are reliant on Qantas Club membership to access BA lounges are (almost by definition) unlikely to be high value/high frequency passengers.

Someone who can stump up $400 per annum or however much it is these days must have a few spare pennies in his pocket, especially if he's London based with the exchange rate at the moment. Christ, we're not backpackers.

And it's not as though we'll run into the lounge and empty the whisky bottles. I just want some peace and quiet before I go to work/return from work. Or if we are flying for recreation, I would like my wife to be able to relax, rather than participate in a scrum - and T5 is a hellhole.

It is immensely disappointing that Qantas has not gone out to bat for us.
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Old Jan 21, 12, 7:06 am
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Originally Posted by AussiePeter View Post
Someone who can stump up $400 per annum or however much it is these days must have a few spare pennies in his pocket, especially if he's London based with the exchange rate at the moment.
Anyone who's got those "few spare pennies" would either be buying business class tickets or doing the relatively small amount of non-economy class flying that's needed to get to QF Gold/BA Silver/OW Sapphire.

Hence, anyone who's relying on Qantas Club membership to get access to BA lounges, and who by definition does not do/has not done the above, is unlikely to be a high value/high frequency passenger.
Originally Posted by AussiePeter View Post
... and T5 is a hellhole.
If T5 is a "hellhole" for you, I'd strongly advise not travelling to most airports in most of the world.

Even LHR can provide far worse experiences than T5.
Originally Posted by AussiePeter View Post
It is immensely disappointing that Qantas has not gone out to bat for us.
As I've pointed out before, you and I have no idea whether QF has gone in all guns blazing and has so far been met with a flat "no, under any circumstances" from BA, or whether it has simply not tried at all. So you have no basis for this statement.
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Old Jan 21, 12, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by AussiePeter View Post

Someone who can stump up $400 per annum or however much it is these days must have a few spare pennies in his pocket, especially if he's London based with the exchange rate at the moment. Christ, we're not backpackers.

And it's not as though we'll run into the lounge and empty the whisky bottles. I just want some peace and quiet before I go to work/return from work. Or if we are flying for recreation, I would like my wife to be able to relax, rather than participate in a scrum - and T5 is a hellhole.
I would suggest that you get a priority pass card and take flights departing from Terminals 1,3 or 4 rather than rely on a lounge access card which is targetted at those flying on Qantas or purchase a business or 1st class ticket

Maybe Qantas will get access sorted at the T5 lounge or maybe BA will just confirm to QF that their agreement is for access to Terraces lounges and that they do not want to grant paid lounge membership rights to T5

Alternatively, do enough travel to attain OW Sapphire status and can use BA lounges anyway

I think Heathrow is a hole to travel to/from and try to avoid it whenever possible ( City and Gatwick are far nicer ) but the departures waiting area is pretty reasonable for an airport

Last edited by Dave Noble; Jan 21, 12 at 1:39 pm
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Old Jan 22, 12, 1:21 am
  #268  
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Originally Posted by AussiePeter View Post
-.. and T5 is a hellhole..
No - its a haven of serenity and tranquility. Fly into TAS at midnight and you might just agree with me.
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Old Jan 26, 12, 1:53 am
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Cool QFF should stop being misleading through omission

....clearly QFF's error at best or intentionally vague at worst in order to give the impression of fewer restrictions on QC than is actually the case.

But the BA matrons do a very nice job of going out of their way to be ghastly. I am a union man but the sooner these cretins get retrenched the better. They are truly awful when you are flying F (and QP) and using the Flounge.

So, QFF, don't lull QCs; just talk straight like you Aussies always claim.
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Old Jan 26, 12, 9:10 pm
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Update from RedRoo posted on AFF - essentially policy will be changed to include all BA Galleries lounges from 31 Jan 2012
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