Rumoured FIRST reductions
Feb 17, 2010, 3:37 pm
#91
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First Reductions *NOW CONFIRMED*
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/2010021...mxw49wbjtm.pdf
Qantas has made the above announcement.
$400 million will be spent to upgrade seats and inflight entertainment on Boeing 747-400 aircraft (9), and alter the configuration of the Airbus A380 delivered after next to year 3 class.
B747-400
A380
The upgrade and reconfiguration program will commence at the end of 2011 and is scheduled for completion by the end of 2013.
Qantas has made the above announcement.
$400 million will be spent to upgrade seats and inflight entertainment on Boeing 747-400 aircraft (9), and alter the configuration of the Airbus A380 delivered after next to year 3 class.
B747-400
- nine B747-400 will be upgraded and fitted with Qantas’ A380 standard seats and inflight product, including a fully flat Skybed sleeper seat in Business, an award-winning Marc Newson designed and Recaro manufactured seat in Economy and state-of-the-art on-demand Panasonic inflight
- entertainment in all classes
- First class cabins will be removed and Business seats installed in their place
- the three-class configuration will offer 359 seats (58 Business, 36 Premium Economy and 265 Economy), an increase of 52 seats overall
A380
- 12 A380s will continue to fly with a four-class configuration, including First class, but be refitted to reduce Business seating and increase Premium Economy and Economy seating
- the remaining eight aircraft will be delivered from 2012 in a three-class configuration and with no First cabin
- A380 seat numbers are to be confirmed subject to discussions with Airbus and suppliers
The upgrade and reconfiguration program will commence at the end of 2011 and is scheduled for completion by the end of 2013.
Last edited by serfty; Feb 17, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Feb 17, 2010, 3:44 pm
#93
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Thats 9 of 30 747s - (presently 24 747-400s, 6 747-400ERs).
Surprised PE seats not increased above 36
and not commencing until end-2011 - that is almost two years away.
Detailed results suggests why.
Page 15
Medium term long haul fleet
Four class A380 (First, Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 12
Three class A380 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 8
Three class B747-400 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 9
So looks like at least 20 747s retired (or off long-haul) by 2013
Surprised PE seats not increased above 36
and not commencing until end-2011 - that is almost two years away.
Detailed results suggests why.
Page 15
Medium term long haul fleet
Four class A380 (First, Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 12
Three class A380 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 8
Three class B747-400 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 9
So looks like at least 20 747s retired (or off long-haul) by 2013
Last edited by moa999; Feb 17, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Feb 17, 2010, 4:12 pm
#94
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I guess the question is: will QF selling 744 routes like SYD-BKK-LHR and SYD-HKG as 2 or 3-class (i.e. without First) by the end of 2010 (i.e. well before the First Class hard products are removed)?
Feb 17, 2010, 4:17 pm
#95
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Thats 9 of 30 747s - (presently 24 747-400s, 6 747-400ERs).
Surprised PE seats not increased above 36
and not commencing until end-2011 - that is almost two years away.
Detailed results suggests why.
Page 15
Medium term long haul fleet
Four class A380 (First, Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 12
Three class A380 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 8
Three class B747-400 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 9
So looks like at least 20 747s retired (or off long-haul) by 2013
Surprised PE seats not increased above 36
and not commencing until end-2011 - that is almost two years away.
Detailed results suggests why.
Page 15
Medium term long haul fleet
Four class A380 (First, Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 12
Three class A380 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 8
Three class B747-400 (Business, Premium Economy, Economy) 9
So looks like at least 20 747s retired (or off long-haul) by 2013
Feb 17, 2010, 4:27 pm
#96
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There are a few that have A330-200 with three-class, but the entire industry seems to be downgrading the availability of F, even though few are forthright enough to admit it. Some with traditionally high load factors in F, since as BA, LAN and AA either have completely eliminated F on many routes, or are in the process of doing so. Sadly all three of those no longer have F from GIG, much to my sorrow and QF has not always had F on EZE-SYD, for example. I'm afraid this is the wave of the future.
Feb 17, 2010, 4:52 pm
#97
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Within the press release is this comment from Mr. Joyce:
Sounds like it is what we expected.
MEL-LAX
MEL-SIN
SYD-SIN
SYD-LAX
SIN-LHR
Having fully lie flat on the 747 brings it in with most other carriers on the Pacific route and keeps parity with V-Australia across to South Africa.
The nose on a 747 is still a nice place to be so not really complaining.
Mr Joyce said QANTAS always be a premium airline committed to offering a premium experience, and First Class would remain available on A380 services where demand existed.
"Maintaining a First offering on flagship routes is essential for QANTAS as a premium airline. It is vital that we align this offering with forecast demand which is expected to be relatively slow compared to Business, Premium Economy and Economy," he said.
"Our 14 A380 First suites will be offered on twelve aircraft and on daily services from Sydney and Melbourne to London via Singapore and Los Angeles."
"Maintaining a First offering on flagship routes is essential for QANTAS as a premium airline. It is vital that we align this offering with forecast demand which is expected to be relatively slow compared to Business, Premium Economy and Economy," he said.
"Our 14 A380 First suites will be offered on twelve aircraft and on daily services from Sydney and Melbourne to London via Singapore and Los Angeles."
MEL-LAX
MEL-SIN
SYD-SIN
SYD-LAX
SIN-LHR
Having fully lie flat on the 747 brings it in with most other carriers on the Pacific route and keeps parity with V-Australia across to South Africa.
The nose on a 747 is still a nice place to be so not really complaining.
Feb 17, 2010, 5:19 pm
#98
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I would imagine they could fit 14 MkII Skybeds in Zone A.
The MKI have a 60" pitch, the MKII have 80".
This may cause some issues with the Upper deck due to the exits, if contuing to contain Skybeds, they would lose at least 4 seats, probably 8.
Assume 8, so thats 30, leaving 28 in Zone B. They could reduce the size of or eliminate the area currently used for the First Gally to get the addional 120" required.
The MKI have a 60" pitch, the MKII have 80".
This may cause some issues with the Upper deck due to the exits, if contuing to contain Skybeds, they would lose at least 4 seats, probably 8.
Assume 8, so thats 30, leaving 28 in Zone B. They could reduce the size of or eliminate the area currently used for the First Gally to get the addional 120" required.
Feb 17, 2010, 7:11 pm
#99
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More likely to put PE on the UD and have all new J on the 747 lower deck.
However nothing happens for over 2 years, and the A380 seat config was announced at least 3 times before the first delivery, so this being the first announcement doesn't mean so much. It is more for stock price guidance
And more importantly it does confirm that QF has deferred all of their post-12 deliveries to 2012 or later (so it is a fleet of 12 operating the prime routes, as speculated). Still think QF has something up in HKG (maybe that was a JL leaving OW contingency).
However nothing happens for over 2 years, and the A380 seat config was announced at least 3 times before the first delivery, so this being the first announcement doesn't mean so much. It is more for stock price guidance
And more importantly it does confirm that QF has deferred all of their post-12 deliveries to 2012 or later (so it is a fleet of 12 operating the prime routes, as speculated). Still think QF has something up in HKG (maybe that was a JL leaving OW contingency).
Feb 17, 2010, 7:27 pm
#100
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A pity for the 747 considering BA managed to update their First seats for the 747.
Granted the new First suites would not fit in the 747 with 14 capacity but I would have thought a reduced seating in First say 9 - 10, sharing a galley with J (is that practical eoinz? Would be better than going for route reduction and more WHY seats.
Why is QF increasing the WHY capacity when there are chaeper offerings out there?
Granted the new First suites would not fit in the 747 with 14 capacity but I would have thought a reduced seating in First say 9 - 10, sharing a galley with J (is that practical eoinz? Would be better than going for route reduction and more WHY seats.
Why is QF increasing the WHY capacity when there are chaeper offerings out there?
Feb 17, 2010, 7:56 pm
#101
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Perhaps because that is the cabin where booking held up in the recent down-turn. Y cabins were full and Y passengers were being accommodated in PE seats and PE passengers in Business Class seats
Feb 17, 2010, 10:01 pm
#103
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Feb 17, 2010, 10:52 pm
#104
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The UD has a certain mystique about it. If I were trying to incentivize people to spend extra, PE on the UD would help -- because anyone who CAN fly J instead of PE certainly will, but the incremental value (7" pitch, 5" extra recline, 2" seat width plus better food/service) doesn't look as good when you consider that it's an extra $700-1,000 each way (i.e., more than double Y fares, and almost 3x the sale fares)!
Feb 17, 2010, 11:27 pm
#105
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Upper Deck P/E - I doubt it.
Not enough room for two aisles up there, and I dont't think you would want to do 3/3 or 3/2 seating.
Yes I know the 747 current config is 2/4/2 and A380 2/3/2 but in both case you have at most one person to get over to the aisle
Not enough room for two aisles up there, and I dont't think you would want to do 3/3 or 3/2 seating.
Yes I know the 747 current config is 2/4/2 and A380 2/3/2 but in both case you have at most one person to get over to the aisle
