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TAP: TLV to EWR from $1457

TAP: TLV to EWR from $1457

Old Feb 2, 22, 4:10 am
  #1  
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TAP: TLV to EWR from $1457

Looking at fares ex-TLV we came across this one on TAP. Under 2000 is the new norm with sub 1600 on RJ available at times, but for Star Alliance collectors probably one of the lowest fares I have seen on this market. HEADS UP... Some flights early in the schedule show a normal Euro-Business 320 on the TLV-LIS route. So avoid those, these examples feature lie-flat all the way.

Flights start at just US$1457 and includes service on their brand new Airbus 330-900 Neos.
This fare books into TAP J Class which credits at 200% to a variety of carriers. So on this trip you would earn 23552 miles in many Star Alliance programs.

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Old Feb 2, 22, 8:23 am
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I have looked at flying TP to TLV (on UA awards, ORD-LIS-TLV) and have found that they list the lie flat seating on the LIS-TLV route and then substitute an A20N (A320-251N or A320neo) with a typical European business class seat (3-3 with the middle seat blocked).

While this is a really good price, I would prefer a better seat for a potentially 6+ hour flight.

Here is the flightradar24 history for TP1604 (TLV-LIS)

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Last edited by cheltzel; Feb 3, 22 at 7:34 am Reason: Add TP1604 flight history; correct aircraft type (A32N -> A20N)
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Old Feb 2, 22, 10:51 am
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Half the trip in quasi Economy is clearly not a good value. It still is decent for miles earned but very tricky from TAPs side. Wondering if there is any recourse from a passenger protection, probably not as it's still the same type of plane.

Also it looks like more flights with LX are now on Euro-Business so connections within Europe and Star flights are on the limited option for good value .. TK?
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Old Feb 2, 22, 11:15 am
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Originally Posted by jfkeze View Post
Half the trip in quasi Economy is clearly not a good value. It still is decent for miles earned but very tricky from TAPs side. Wondering if there is any recourse from a passenger protection, probably not as it's still the same type of plane.

Also it looks like more flights with LX are now on Euro-Business so connections within Europe and Star flights are on the limited option for good value .. TK?
My searches were all UA award flights from ORD to TLV. The best value from the perspective of seating, equipment and soft product (meals, lounges, etc) was TK. I could get full lie flat wide bodies on both the legs to IST as well as TLV. Personally I am not concerned about the 2-3-2 77W TK seating as I fly with my wife about 99% of the time.

This all changes when you are buying the tickets. TK comes in at almost 2x the cost of TP.

A close competitor to TP on this flight (TLV <-> NYC) is RJ connecting at AMM, but the departure airport is JFK and not EWR. You can get decent connections and all wide body business between JFK and AMM and the flight between AMM and TLV is less than 1 hour. Booked in to fare class I, this would be around 11K LPs on AA (about 1500 more if you use an AA credit card to pay for the ticket).

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Old Feb 2, 22, 11:03 pm
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Originally Posted by cheltzel View Post
I have looked at flying TP to TLV (on UA awards, ORD-LIS-TLV) and have found that they list the lie flat seating on the LIS-TLV route and then substitute an A32N (A320-251N or A320neo) with a typical European business class seat (3-3 with the middle seat blocked).

While this is a really good price, I would prefer a better seat for a potentially 6+ hour flight.

Here is the flightradar24 history for TP1604 (TLV-LIS)

Wow. This is extremely fraudulent behavior. They are selling one thing and then delivering another.
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Old Feb 3, 22, 6:24 am
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Originally Posted by keitherson View Post
Wow. This is extremely fraudulent behavior. They are selling one thing and then delivering another.
I mean it's a 6 hour flight , to get this bait and switch, it's a pretty cheap move...
I saw dates with Euro-Business but assumed it was the calendar, guess they don't get many sales upfront and just keep the Euro 320s since the back is the same (do they have IFE in Y on the new 321s?)
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Old Feb 3, 22, 1:02 pm
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wow was looking for a good *A J fare to TLV thanks for the head up for the LIS-TLV leg likely being in regular recliners, is a deal breaker for me
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Old Feb 4, 22, 10:52 am
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Originally Posted by cheltzel View Post
I have looked at flying TP to TLV (on UA awards, ORD-LIS-TLV) and have found that they list the lie flat seating on the LIS-TLV route and then substitute an A20N (A320-251N or A320neo) with a typical European business class seat (3-3 with the middle seat blocked).

While this is a really good price, I would prefer a better seat for a potentially 6+ hour flight.

Here is the flightradar24 history for TP1604 (TLV-LIS)
I recall that in the past they listed European "business" configuration aircraft on that route (at least the last time I checked, which was last summer), so the results on flightradar are consistent with that. That was the reason I never considered booking Tap previously for this route (I was purposely checking it from time to time to see if they change their mind wrt. the aircraft)

Right now Tap does not have a flight to TLV at all (on their website they book a codeshare with LY on weekends only). So, it seems that the flights available for booking in the spring are essentially "new". While Tap is not known for good service (in fact, they are just after UA on my personal list of "favorite" airlines), we don't know yet what kind of aircraft they will actually use when the route restarts.

I booked these tickets for the late spring - we'll see.

P.S. Even now, the flights available in February (26-27) are still listed as A320Neo (i.e. Euro-seat). The A320LR is listed beginning April, which I believe is the first time Tap advertised such. Let's see what happens then.

P.P.S. When you look at flight details, Tap seems to encode "Euro" aircraft as A320Neo and "lie flat"/LR as A321Neo.

Last edited by tr3k; Feb 4, 22 at 11:18 am
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Old Feb 4, 22, 2:35 pm
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Originally Posted by tr3k View Post
I recall that in the past they listed European "business" configuration aircraft on that route (at least the last time I checked, which was last summer), so the results on flightradar are consistent with that. That was the reason I never considered booking Tap previously for this route (I was purposely checking it from time to time to see if they change their mind wrt. the aircraft)

Right now Tap does not have a flight to TLV at all (on their website they book a codeshare with LY on weekends only). So, it seems that the flights available for booking in the spring are essentially "new". While Tap is not known for good service (in fact, they are just after UA on my personal list of "favorite" airlines), we don't know yet what kind of aircraft they will actually use when the route restarts.

I booked these tickets for the late spring - we'll see.

P.S. Even now, the flights available in February (26-27) are still listed as A320Neo (i.e. Euro-seat). The A320LR is listed beginning April, which I believe is the first time Tap advertised such. Let's see what happens then.

P.P.S. When you look at flight details, Tap seems to encode "Euro" aircraft as A320Neo and "lie flat"/LR as A321Neo.
TAP Uses the shorthand A21N to include two different sub-types, the A321-251N and the A321-251NX. Only the latter has the lie flat seats. When I was looking a few months ago, I was shown A321 Neo aircraft for the LIS TLV route. and all of these ended up being Euro-business seating.

I am not saying that is what you will get. Actually I hope to see that we see the A321-251NX on the LIS-TLV route most of the time. But with only a few A321-251NX aircraft in their fleet (TP website says 8 and flightradar24 says 10 with 2 additional recent deliveries), they have to be largely dedicated to longer range routes or high demand/profit shorter range markets.

Uppdate:

I found some more information a thread on the TP forum about the discrepancies on the LIS-TLV route. Check out the last two posts (#13 and #14) in the following. It specifically addresses the issue we've been discussing.

2-2 Seating A321 neo

Last edited by cheltzel; Feb 5, 22 at 8:29 am Reason: Add additional information
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Old Feb 6, 22, 2:39 pm
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It's TAP, nothing would surprise me. I had to file a chargeback on a ticket. Bank couldn't even get ahold of TAP. They refunded ticket over 6 months ago. I got notice last week to checkin for the ticket. I was surprised when checkin went through. They hadn't even voided the ticket.

I've also seen the switch of plane type happen many times.
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Old Feb 6, 22, 6:56 pm
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I agree - TAP sucks (and in ways that no other airline could even think of). But wrt the specific aircraft - we'll see. If no one else flies this route earlier, I'll come back in May.
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Old Feb 7, 22, 12:23 am
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I'm going to give this a whirl late May. Will report back on the LIS-TLV aircraft.
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Old Feb 7, 22, 9:14 am
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Originally Posted by seanp7 View Post
I'm going to give this a whirl late May. Will report back on the LIS-TLV aircraft.
Good chance we end up on the same flight
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Old Mar 28, 22, 8:57 am
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Been watching the a/c on this route. As of yesterday LIS-TLV is on A21N (was A20N prior), and is the same a/c that flies YYZ-LIS (although it also goes on shorter routes within Europe). Not sure how else to verify whether it is a lie-flat (unless someone has a specific list of tail numbers)
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Old Mar 29, 22, 2:22 pm
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Originally Posted by tr3k View Post
Been watching the a/c on this route. As of yesterday LIS-TLV is on A21N (was A20N prior), and is the same a/c that flies YYZ-LIS (although it also goes on shorter routes within Europe). Not sure how else to verify whether it is a lie-flat (unless someone has a specific list of tail numbers)
I've been trying to figure this out. My research indicates that the A321neo LR airframes and the lie flat business seats on TP are A321-251NX with tail numbers begging with CS-TXx (CS-TXA, CS-TXB, CS-TXC, etc). There are other type of airframes listed as A21N. And there are also 4 A321-251NX aircraft in TP's fleet that do not have the lie flat business seat maps (These have tail numbers CS-TJO, CS-TJP, CS-TJQ and C-TJR). These 4 airframes show four rows of 2-2 business class seats. I assume these are some form of recliner seat.

I arrived at this conclusion by researching specific TP routes and looking at the EF business seat maps for specific flights/tail numbers. I do not pretend to have researched every single airframe in TP's fleet. Maybe someone with really definitive knowledge on this could jump in.
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