SpammersAreScum

I really don't think you two are in disagreement.

You are both saying that:

1. OP gets access because he has status and is flying internationally (PTY)
2. OP would not get access just due to class of service because the PTY flight fails the relevant-in-that-case 5 hour rule

Yes?

Server

The 5-hour rule does not apply here if the OP is an elite status member. If it did apply then I would not be getting lounge access when flying inter-Europe flights in Economy class. Two separate countries, not listed in the exceptions.

I think the disagreement here is if the clause regarding "traveling solely on flight between or within the United States, etc" means you only get access AT the exit port or all along the way throughout the itinerary. It does not state the word 'departing', rathter traveling, in that clause.

With the consistsncty of lounge agents amung all of us, being let in on outbound or inbound for international flights, I would be safe to say access should be granted.

Now this is not to say you should yell, kick, or scream at agents. I doubt any of us did. More of disagree in a light tone and maybe pull up the rules. Otherwise don't stress the agents too much or hold up the line.

SpammersAreScum

Which is precisely what everyone is saying. You'll notice that:
- I very carefully did not mention the 5-hour rule in the "status" case
- I very carefully said for the "CoS" case that 5-hour rule is "relevant-in-that-case" (emphasis in the original)

Server

Ah sorry! I mis-understood the sentence. Yes you are correct.

no2chem

Nope, in strong disagreement. I am making it clear that wanderlust4life is making several incorrect statements about lounge access. I will highlight below (bolding mine):

He goes on to berate the OP, who should have had access:
And continues to "wander" off with some incorrect interpretation that status based access is "grey area"
And some misinterpretation about "based on departing":
When of course, the departing clause only requires that the airline be oneworld, which an AA flight from LAX-PHX would be:
And the "domestic flight" exception, which only applies to AA elites, quite clearly does NOT use that language, using the world "solely" which totally covers the case of feeder flights:
Either way, it's irks me that someone is giving incorrect information, since I've worked so hard to get the QF lounge manager to agree on the correct interpretation of the rules (clearly, I connect in LAX way too often), see the QF lounge thread...

keitherson

Can you just blame AA for making these stupid complicated as hell rules for their own members instead of each other? thanks

If you are elite with AA i suggest you find another OW program anyways

wanderlust4life

I have just visited both the Flagship lounge T4 and QF F Lounge at LAX this morning and reached out to agents at both locations. They both affirmed that the word "departing" means departing, connecting same-day or before 6am the following day. This applies to both class of service entry and AA elite status entry. Both said that on such an itinerary that involves both domestic and international legs, they will look at how far out the international leg is. I then presented my PTY itinerary for next week and Shelly from the Admirals Club said "most certainly we will not be granting access at LAX since your flight from MIA-PTY doesn't leave until 2 days later." She then said "the same would apply if your international flight left the next day in the afternoon." She continued to say "the only way we can let you in is if you are heading to PTY sometime later the same day or first thing the following morning." She even admitted "we will take into consideration if the flight does leave next day but is in the morning close to the 6am limit, then we may grant entry at our discretion." I said "well I personally won't have any of these problems" while flashing my non-AA emerald card. And she and I laughed and I continued on my way.

Now please explain to me how you can get around these rules and still get access at LAX for this PTY run. It just doesn't seem possible. There is no routing that would allow for a MIA-PTY flight to be on the same day or before 6 am the next day to allow for entry at the starting airport being LAX. By the time I fly LAX to JFK to MIA, its too late to make the last flight to PTY from MIA that same day. And theres no flight leaving for PTY from MIA before 6am any day of the week. Now it does make sense that entry could be granted at the JFK airport especially if the flight from LAX was the red eye and now the JFK-MIA segment is the same day as MIA-PTY etc. But I honestly just dont see how its possible for a lounge agent to let someone in when they aren't flying internationally for at least a day later, or even two days later. The only way I can see them letting people in is based on the transcon nonstop segment between LAX and JFK.

My PTY flights dont leave for 2 days after my first LAX flight. DAY 1 = LAX-JFK. DAY 2 = JFK-MIA DAY 3 = MIA-PTY-MIA.

And you still think I should have access based on the international flight being in my itinerary no matter when it actually departs?! I just dont see how its possible. If I didnt have non-AA elite status, the only way I see myself getting into an LAX lounge is because of my transcon segment. If my DAY 1 was LAX-ORD-JFK, I wouldn't be getting lounge access until its the same day of MIA-PTY flight or the day before if that MIA-PTY flight departed prior to 6am.

Now this PTY run aside, I have traveled on several complex dragged out itineraries involving several domestic segments and international legs. On a recent trip, I flew from JFK-MIA overnighted at a hotel in MIA, then MIA-LAS, overnight, and then LAS-LAX-SYD that third night. Now you are saying I should still have lounge access at both JFK and MIA when my JFK to MIA flight is 48 hours prior to the first international flight?

I just dont see how its possible for a runner to get into a lounge at LAX on a non-transcon itinerary where the MIA-PTY flight is the next day after 6am. There have been reports in this thread of people getting denied access at LAX for this very rule. And there are even reports that state that "PTY is no longer considered international."

So you tell me what I should say next week at the LAX lounge entry when Im flying from LAX-XXX-XXX-XXX-XXX-XXX-MIA-PTY about how I should be allowed in based on an international flight leaving days later? I see myself only getting entry into the AC, FL, oneworld J lounge because of my transcon segment in J and being EXP, as well as, access to the QF F lounge because of my non-AA emerald.

no2chem

If you are traveling on a single itinerary (not solely domestic), then yes, you should be granted access, even if the "international" segment is 100 days out, since you are not solely traveling on domestic flights. Granted, such a ticket would be very expensive on AA, and probably ticket into full Y (maybe for this very reason). Either way a very unlikely mechanism to be abused, and also very rare, so probably most agents don't know the correct way to deal with such tickets.

Sure "departing" can totally mean that. But again, the "departing" clause only requires the "departing" flight be oneworld operated and marketed, and the intention of that rule is so you don't show up at the airport 3 days before your flight departs. Notice again, that nowhere in that clause is "international" mentioned.

I hope you didn't cause further confusion; Clearly the lounge agents get to think whatever they want to think (and never seem to agree), but my multiple correspondence with the relevant oneworld/QF/AA managers have confirmed my position and what is outlined in the current version of the oneworld rules - "solely" means that the itinerary does not only contain domestic segments.

keitherson

LOL!!!!!!!!! LAX-DFW today//DFW-LHR three months later

You think that will get you into the LAX QF F/AA Flagship?

Oh my god you are delusional

no2chem

Not sure how I'm being delusional, it is clearly what the rules state.

Furthermore, FYI, such a ticket books into full Y due to the way AA structures its fares ($3k one way for that flight...), so someone with elite status trying to get lounge access this way is pretty unlikely.

And again, this is only a problem on AA... If you weren't an AA elite, this wouldn't be a problem. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the spirit of this rule is to ensure that elite members suffering long connections are treated well, just like the other OW elites, as I have many a time on a SFO-JFK-EZE(next day, 9p) connection.

keitherson

There are plenty of fares that allow a domestic stopover on the international gateway. If you recall, up until 2015 AAdvantage, this was allowed on every single AA award ticket.

Also, fare class does not matter for lounge access.

Whether ping-ponging around the United States makes lounge access more likely or not does not make your interpretation any more unreasonable, especially if you do not have a boarding pass for the international flight.

Like I said, you are absolutely being delusional if you think having a domestic flight days, weeks, or months before your international segment entitles you to lounge access. AAgents will rightfully deny you access if so.

no2chem

Never said it did. Just making a point that such a situation is going to be very rare.

According to the rules, in the OP's situation, he was wrongfully denied. If oneworld/AA wishes to change it, they could rewrite their very clearly spelled out rules. I'm just going to blame AA for making things complicated and stop caring since I have non-AA ow status anyway.

hiima

That is delusional. 3 months away is pretty much another ticket at that point.
Also, it's not the way only AA structures their one way fare, it's pretty much everybody with ow to EUR.

wanderlust4life

Well this is great news if I truly can get lounge access for just making sure one segment on my itinerary is international! I have an itinerary coming up on one ticket after this PTY run where Ill be going SYD-LAX then a week in LAX and then LAX-ORD 4 days there and then ORD-JFK 1 day there and then JFK-DFW one night there and then DFW-PHX three weeks there and then PHX-LAX 3 nights there and LAX-SYD. Roundtrip J priced at $4300.

I can't wait to walk into the LAX, ORD, JFK, DFW, PHX lounges with my AA EXP card, domestic boarding pass and just a copy of my itinerary highlighting my two international legs that show one leg at the very beginning and one at the very end. Im not going to mention at all that I have non-AA emerald that grants me access for any flight whatsoever. If I get denied, Ill just show them what you said, and then they are bound to let me in!!

According to what you are saying, all I'd need is an international leg on my ticket to prove a not "solely" domestic itinerary no matter how spread out the dates are and I'd get lounge access the whole journey? Then the only point of having non-AA oneworld status for lounge access would be for "solely" domestic itineraries.

LAX Flagship Lounges and QF First lounge here I come!!! YAY!!!!

keitherson

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....emium-economy/

Note that from early 2017 onwards fare class changes from F -> J, A -> D, P -> I on domestic itineraries. This has a huge effect on point-based fliers on BA, CX, QF, QR.