Apr 30, 2016, 12:36 pm
Last edit by: Server
OCTOBER 2016 UPDATE
LAX-JFK TRANSCONTINENTAL FLIGHTS:
1. Same day turns possible on the E-jets and morning 738s.
2. Bonuses now based on fare paid.
3. As of OCTOBER 2016, best fares are now around $1000. Fare tends to rise a few hundred for 2 pax. Fares can also occasionally rise for no discernible reason, but the price spikes have thus far proven to be temporary. Fares have the trend to drop during the year. Keep checking for fares in the $700-$800 ranges for best possible pricing.
4. Airport hotels with shuttles - Crowne Plaza Panama Airport & Riande Aeropuerto. The CP is slightly closer; the Riande is slightly nicer. The CP shuttle leaves the hotel every :00 and :30 and runs 24 hours but they seem to leave a few minutes early as it had left when I went down at 4:00AM on the dot. Also, note UberX charges a US$14 surcharge on top of the ~US$2 fare. CP has poor sound isolation, I could hear my neighbors on both sides including talking, crying baby etc. Had to wear earplugs to sleep.
5. Lounges:
Please refer to this thread for more detailed and accurate information on lounge access in general: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1656378-help-desk-will-i-have-lounge-access-access-rules-2016-a.html
6. PTY Customs:
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
If you want the transcon bonus, enter the search with a connection in JFK. (e.g. LAX-JFK,JFK-MIA,MIA-PTY,PTY-JFK,JFK-SFO.) You can play around from there to get the best deal. Some of the better deals do not start and end in the same city (e.g. start in LAX, end in SFO may be cheaper than start/end in LAX).
Also, it's possible on the outbound portion to time it so you have no more than a 60-minute layover at JFK or MIA (though note that some of these flights aren't available on weekends). While yes, JFK is notorious for delays, this rarely applies for inbound red-eye flights. Also, note that AA 28 below is sometimes "hidden" if you're looking on Google Flights inside a much more expensive trip; that does not necessarily mean, however, that you can't get it for one of the trips under $1,000 (in other words, try it out to see).
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
Below is the shortest-possible outbound itinerary that has the LAX-JFK transcon on AA's A321T with flat-bed seats:
LAX-JFK on AA 28
10:45pm - 7:22am
JFK-MIA on AA 200
8:15am - 11:24am
(Note: AA has now switched all of the metal it used on this leg - on all JFK-MIA nonstops - to 757s instead of the 767s with international-style F & J seating.)***767 and 772 are back. Flight 200 is a 772**
MIA-PTY on AA 4434
12:33pm - 2:48pm
(Note: Even more distressingly, AA switched from using a 737 on this leg to an RJ, presumably because summer is off-peak season in Central America. The 6:05pm flight still uses a 737 if a full-size aircraft is a must.)
LAX-JFK TRANSCONTINENTAL FLIGHTS:
Recent fare rule inclusions, effective October 2016, now prevent any routing via JFK on the non-stop transcontinental A321T aircraft. Any future booking will demand a significantly higher fare to route on the non-stops via JFK. Unless the fare rules are modified and these clauses are removed (highly doubtful), the ability to fly on the transcons via JFK is a thing of the past.
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN LAX AND NYC
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
AND
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN SFO AND NYC
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
AND
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN SFO AND NYC
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
1. Same day turns possible on the E-jets and morning 738s.
2. Bonuses now based on fare paid.
3. As of OCTOBER 2016, best fares are now around $1000. Fare tends to rise a few hundred for 2 pax. Fares can also occasionally rise for no discernible reason, but the price spikes have thus far proven to be temporary. Fares have the trend to drop during the year. Keep checking for fares in the $700-$800 ranges for best possible pricing.
4. Airport hotels with shuttles - Crowne Plaza Panama Airport & Riande Aeropuerto. The CP is slightly closer; the Riande is slightly nicer. The CP shuttle leaves the hotel every :00 and :30 and runs 24 hours but they seem to leave a few minutes early as it had left when I went down at 4:00AM on the dot. Also, note UberX charges a US$14 surcharge on top of the ~US$2 fare. CP has poor sound isolation, I could hear my neighbors on both sides including talking, crying baby etc. Had to wear earplugs to sleep.
5. Lounges:
Please refer to this thread for more detailed and accurate information on lounge access in general: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1656378-help-desk-will-i-have-lounge-access-access-rules-2016-a.html
LAX AIRPORT
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on status, it is simply departing/connecting/arriving at any point on same ticket to and from an eligible international destination. PTY is eligible and not excluded regardless of length.
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on class of service disregarding status, it is the international long haul clause that applies. Therefore, no "oneworld/QF lounge" access for non-elites for trips to and from PTY unless booking transcons since PTY is under 5 hours. BUT AA doesn't enforce this in their own lounges so Admirals Club access is expected.
AA GOLDs(RUBYs)/NON-ELITES
Admirals Club access is granted regardless of routing as AA does not enforce international long haul rule. However, the oneworld J lounge does for Golds(rubys)/non-elites as they are aware the PTY flights are under 5 hours. Booking transcon flights in J/F gains access to the OWJ/QFF lounges.
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Technically NONE (PTY under 5 hours therefore class of service rule applies) BUT AA still opens Admirals Club doors to all customers because they dont enforce the long-haul rule>
AA PLATINUMs
Platinums gain access to all AC/Business lounges regardless of routing due to flying to and from PTY. They gain access to First/Flagship lounges when traveling in F 3-class transcon
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + LAX oneworld J>
AA EXPs
EXPs have access to all lounges at all airports regardless of routing so long as they are traveling to and from PTY on the same itinerary (an international destination neither excluded from AA's list of ineligible regions nor limited by the flight length rule)
<EXPs Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in Y = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in J = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
NON-AA ONEWORLD ELITES
All sapphires and emeralds have some form of lounge access on any flight systemwide
<non-AA sapphires on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX>
<non-AA emeralds on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX + Flagship Lounge + QF F lounge LAX>
OTHER AIRPORTS
SFO - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
JFK - Admirals Club & Flagship Lounge for EXP/First 3-class/Emerald
MIA - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee), Oneworld Premium Lounge for EXP/First 3-Class/Emerald
PTY - No lounge access (Copa with PP, or for a fee, for 7am or later flights)
YVR - No lounge access (PP for a fee)
DFW - Admiral's Club (with F/C Dining for EXP/Emerald) (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on status, it is simply departing/connecting/arriving at any point on same ticket to and from an eligible international destination. PTY is eligible and not excluded regardless of length.
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on class of service disregarding status, it is the international long haul clause that applies. Therefore, no "oneworld/QF lounge" access for non-elites for trips to and from PTY unless booking transcons since PTY is under 5 hours. BUT AA doesn't enforce this in their own lounges so Admirals Club access is expected.
AA GOLDs(RUBYs)/NON-ELITES
Admirals Club access is granted regardless of routing as AA does not enforce international long haul rule. However, the oneworld J lounge does for Golds(rubys)/non-elites as they are aware the PTY flights are under 5 hours. Booking transcon flights in J/F gains access to the OWJ/QFF lounges.
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Technically NONE (PTY under 5 hours therefore class of service rule applies) BUT AA still opens Admirals Club doors to all customers because they dont enforce the long-haul rule>
AA PLATINUMs
Platinums gain access to all AC/Business lounges regardless of routing due to flying to and from PTY. They gain access to First/Flagship lounges when traveling in F 3-class transcon
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + LAX oneworld J>
AA EXPs
EXPs have access to all lounges at all airports regardless of routing so long as they are traveling to and from PTY on the same itinerary (an international destination neither excluded from AA's list of ineligible regions nor limited by the flight length rule)
<EXPs Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in Y = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in J = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
NON-AA ONEWORLD ELITES
All sapphires and emeralds have some form of lounge access on any flight systemwide
<non-AA sapphires on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX>
<non-AA emeralds on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX + Flagship Lounge + QF F lounge LAX>
OTHER AIRPORTS
SFO - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
JFK - Admirals Club & Flagship Lounge for EXP/First 3-class/Emerald
MIA - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee), Oneworld Premium Lounge for EXP/First 3-Class/Emerald
PTY - No lounge access (Copa with PP, or for a fee, for 7am or later flights)
YVR - No lounge access (PP for a fee)
DFW - Admiral's Club (with F/C Dining for EXP/Emerald) (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
6. PTY Customs:
Inbound to PTY -
Outbound to MIA -
7. Finding flights: - 12 noon - no lines reported
- 8PM Fri (5/27/16) - ~10 min line
Outbound to MIA -
- 4:40am - no lines reported
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
If you want the transcon bonus, enter the search with a connection in JFK. (e.g. LAX-JFK,JFK-MIA,MIA-PTY,PTY-JFK,JFK-SFO.) You can play around from there to get the best deal. Some of the better deals do not start and end in the same city (e.g. start in LAX, end in SFO may be cheaper than start/end in LAX).
Also, it's possible on the outbound portion to time it so you have no more than a 60-minute layover at JFK or MIA (though note that some of these flights aren't available on weekends). While yes, JFK is notorious for delays, this rarely applies for inbound red-eye flights. Also, note that AA 28 below is sometimes "hidden" if you're looking on Google Flights inside a much more expensive trip; that does not necessarily mean, however, that you can't get it for one of the trips under $1,000 (in other words, try it out to see).
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
Below is the shortest-possible outbound itinerary that has the LAX-JFK transcon on AA's A321T with flat-bed seats:
LAX-JFK on AA 28
10:45pm - 7:22am
JFK-MIA on AA 200
8:15am - 11:24am
(Note: AA has now switched all of the metal it used on this leg - on all JFK-MIA nonstops - to 757s instead of the 767s with international-style F & J seating.)***767 and 772 are back. Flight 200 is a 772**
MIA-PTY on AA 4434
12:33pm - 2:48pm
(Note: Even more distressingly, AA switched from using a 737 on this leg to an RJ, presumably because summer is off-peak season in Central America. The 6:05pm flight still uses a 737 if a full-size aircraft is a must.)
AA: LAX-JFK-MIA-PTY RT $702 in A/J 18.9K EQMs
Oct 11, 2016, 3:54 pm
#1891
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: LAX, LGB, SNA
Programs: AA EXP OWE, DL DM ST+, AS MVPG, UA, BA, WN CP, Hyatt E, Ritz Plat, HH GM
Posts: 3,185
Maybe it's not a phantom fare, but a look into the future fare 😱. It was 400$ before.
Oct 11, 2016, 5:10 pm
#1892
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
Oct 11, 2016, 7:38 pm
#1893
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Upper U.S.
Programs: AA EXP x 1.5, DL GM, JB, HH GLD
Posts: 145
Well, that would be awesome. I only wish we knew, as I am already looking at booking a UIO trip to complete EXP. I'd be happy going back to PTY. Please Future Fare Wizard, give us a sign.
Oct 12, 2016, 8:47 am
#1894
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Loud, dark, warm, lots of ethernet cables, and in some rack space.
Programs: AA:EXP
Posts: 369
Datapoint: Went to the Admirals club in LAX to see if they enforced lounge rules of departure times (some reported it works even though your flight departs the next day afternoon).
Unfortunately they seem to atleast enforce the times from what I took from their explaination (you'll have access to MIA tommorow though). Was not on a transcontinental, but an international itinerary with EXP status. Did not press anything further.
Again, not complaining, but wanted to add that datapoint. Maybe I'll try in DFW. Probably the incinsistantcy of enforcing by some agents.
Unfortunately they seem to atleast enforce the times from what I took from their explaination (you'll have access to MIA tommorow though). Was not on a transcontinental, but an international itinerary with EXP status. Did not press anything further.
Again, not complaining, but wanted to add that datapoint. Maybe I'll try in DFW. Probably the incinsistantcy of enforcing by some agents.
Oct 12, 2016, 9:25 am
#1895
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: AA LT PLT; HH Diamond; AS 75K
Posts: 2,878
Datapoint: Went to the Admirals club in LAX to see if they enforced lounge rules of departure times (some reported it works even though your flight departs the next day afternoon).
Unfortunately they seem to atleast enforce the times from what I took from their explaination (you'll have access to MIA tommorow though). Was not on a transcontinental, but an international itinerary with EXP status. Did not press anything further.
Again, not complaining, but wanted to add that datapoint. Maybe I'll try in DFW. Probably the incinsistantcy of enforcing by some agents.
Unfortunately they seem to atleast enforce the times from what I took from their explaination (you'll have access to MIA tommorow though). Was not on a transcontinental, but an international itinerary with EXP status. Did not press anything further.
Again, not complaining, but wanted to add that datapoint. Maybe I'll try in DFW. Probably the incinsistantcy of enforcing by some agents.
Oct 12, 2016, 9:47 am
#1896
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Loud, dark, warm, lots of ethernet cables, and in some rack space.
Programs: AA:EXP
Posts: 369
I was denied AC/FL access at LAX (LAX-PHX-JFK-MIA-PTY) on the basis of being a later than 0600 international departure the next day. After an argument it was F/C class, international, and EXP I was finally let in. I've never been denied lounge access on a single ticket international travel. I stopped by the FL where the nice agent allowed me in despite to entry dragon's refusal.
Either way I drew a blank from that denial, I've never been denied access on international itineraries (Inbound or outbound). It may be the latter since last time in ORD they let me in on my flight of NRT-ORD-BUF and asked me about membership. Responding with 'No, but I'm Playinum status'. Not complaining, just interesting how rules are enforced. Will try at DFW.
Last edited by Server; Oct 12, 2016 at 10:01 am
Oct 12, 2016, 12:59 pm
#1897
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
I was denied AC/FL access at LAX (LAX-PHX-JFK-MIA-PTY) on the basis of being a later than 0600 international departure the next day. After an argument it was F/C class, international, and EXP I was finally let in. I've never been denied lounge access on a single ticket international travel. I stopped by the FL where the nice agent allowed me in despite to entry dragon's refusal.
Conclusion: AA's Admirals Clubs are not following the strict guidelines unlike the other oneworld lounges. If they did choose to enforce the 5 hour flight length rule and international departure same day or by 6 am next day, then the ONLY way for mileage runners to get lounge access would be to book a transcontinental segment in a premium cabin. I doubt the AC agents will suddenly enforce these clauses. Therefore, runners can expect to receive AC access or flagship access (EXP) when traveling to PTY.
With that said, its the massive inconsistency that lounge agents are granting and denying entry by enforcing or overlooking these rules. I highly doubt the lounge agents even know the 5 hour flight length rule and if they do deny entry, its for the 6am next day rule.
You should be thankful to actually get lounge access on a non-transcon itinerary because you really aren't supposed to have it anyway. Rules should be respected regardless if agents know to enforce them.
Oct 12, 2016, 1:06 pm
#1898
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
The inability to book transcon segments for this run also applies to several others including BOG / UIO / CLO.
However, it is possible to fly LAX nonstop to JFK onward to SJU. The restriction is not imposed on LAX-SJU fares.
Fares aren't that low and hover around $1000. With that said, its still a great way to fly J on the transcons at a fraction of the price of whats normally charged to go nonstop LAX-JFK. You can also play around with the routing and add in other airports to make a zig zag routing and get more EQMs.
However, it is possible to fly LAX nonstop to JFK onward to SJU. The restriction is not imposed on LAX-SJU fares.
Fares aren't that low and hover around $1000. With that said, its still a great way to fly J on the transcons at a fraction of the price of whats normally charged to go nonstop LAX-JFK. You can also play around with the routing and add in other airports to make a zig zag routing and get more EQMs.
Last edited by wanderlust4life; Oct 12, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Oct 12, 2016, 3:55 pm
#1899
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Loud, dark, warm, lots of ethernet cables, and in some rack space.
Programs: AA:EXP
Posts: 369
Case in point where you demanded access and were let in even though the rules state you are not allowed. I feel sorry for these agents that must be yelled at constantly regardless of whether they are ignorant or unfamiliar with the many rules they are supposed to enforce. Im sure the agent didn't want to argue with you and let you in but next time you should feel grateful to be let in when the rules clearly forbid access on this itinerary. Theres nothing redeeming about arguing for something when you aren't supposed to have it, but still push until you get it.
The applicability of the 6AM rule and long-haul flights is for First or Business class travel. The considerable grey area is if you're flying an international itinerary on AA as an elite status member, it should therefore not be regarded as a part of the AA elite status rule of 'solely' flying in the North American flights within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean part.
You are right with if they're on a non-transcontinental itinerary without status on a F/J ticket they should have no access.
Last edited by Server; Oct 12, 2016 at 4:11 pm
Oct 12, 2016, 4:38 pm
#1900
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: TPA
Programs: BA Silver; Hilton Gold; IHG Diamond Ambassador; Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,811
I'd probably bring up the point that the oneworld rules have essentially two separate sections. The status based access section is summarized as, if you're flying any Oneworld based airline ticket as an Emerald or Sapphire, you should get lounge access regardless of class of service.
The applicability of the 6AM rule and long-haul flights is for First or Business class travel. The considerable grey area is if you're flying an international itinerary on AA as an elite status member, it should therefore not be regarded as a part of the AA elite status rule of 'solely' flying in the North American flights within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean part.
You are right with if they're on a non-transcontinental itinerary without status on a F/J ticket they should have no access.
The applicability of the 6AM rule and long-haul flights is for First or Business class travel. The considerable grey area is if you're flying an international itinerary on AA as an elite status member, it should therefore not be regarded as a part of the AA elite status rule of 'solely' flying in the North American flights within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean part.
You are right with if they're on a non-transcontinental itinerary without status on a F/J ticket they should have no access.
* ...with, of course, the exception of AA status holders flying solely "domestically".
Oct 12, 2016, 5:55 pm
#1901
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
I'd probably bring up the point that the oneworld rules have essentially two separate sections. The status based access section is summarized as, if you're flying any Oneworld based airline ticket as an Emerald or Sapphire, you should get lounge access regardless of class of service.
The applicability of the 6AM rule and long-haul flights is for First or Business class travel. The considerable grey area is if you're flying an international itinerary on AA as an elite status member, it should therefore not be regarded as a part of the AA elite status rule of 'solely' flying in the North American flights within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean part.
You are right with if they're on a non-transcontinental itinerary without status on a F/J ticket they should have no access.
The applicability of the 6AM rule and long-haul flights is for First or Business class travel. The considerable grey area is if you're flying an international itinerary on AA as an elite status member, it should therefore not be regarded as a part of the AA elite status rule of 'solely' flying in the North American flights within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean part.
You are right with if they're on a non-transcontinental itinerary without status on a F/J ticket they should have no access.
It is that grey area when only looking at the section dealing with entry based on status. AA seems to copy and paste the same clause regarding flying within the U.S. or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean. BUT unlike the sections dealing with First and Business class guests where further explanation about departing and connecting and flight length rules, AA doesn't repeat the same for entry based on status.
I think the real question is whether they are implicitly enforcing that whatever applies to premium passengers also applies to AA elites or whether they are actually stripping some of those restrictions to allow for AA elites to access lounges regardless of flight length etc.
Regardless, the lounge agents are so inconsistent. They are known to refuse access when it should have been allowed. And they have granted access in so many situations such as letting in non-elites who are flying non-transcon F/J to PTY.
Oct 12, 2016, 6:03 pm
#1902
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
You're right, but that's an interesting gap in the rules, isn't it? Sapphire and Emerald are allowed* "If you’re departing on a flight marketed and operated by a oneworld carrier, ...", but departing when? Unlike the rules for class of service, and for Prestige card holders ("same day", "within 12 hours"), it simply doesn't say.
* ...with, of course, the exception of AA status holders flying solely "domestically".
* ...with, of course, the exception of AA status holders flying solely "domestically".
It begs the question what does the term "departing" really mean.
Does it mean departing from that particular airport to an international destination? Or does it mean departing any time that day or early the next day to an international destination?
One can argue it means that a passenger's next stop is in another country, therefore, access is granted at that departing airport. At the same time, another person can argue that the word "departing" is synonymous with "connecting" by basing this argument off of how AA using the phrase "departing same-day." It would remove a lot of the vagueness if AA used the phrase "connecting same-day." Then, the word "departing" would have a singular definition and essentially mean flying directly to an international port.
Oct 12, 2016, 6:05 pm
#1903
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
With that said, its the massive inconsistency that lounge agents are granting and denying entry by enforcing or overlooking these rules. I highly doubt the lounge agents even know the 5 hour flight length rule and if they do deny entry, its for the 6am next day rule.
You should be thankful to actually get lounge access on a non-transcon itinerary because you really aren't supposed to have it anyway. Rules should be respected regardless if agents know to enforce them.
You should be thankful to actually get lounge access on a non-transcon itinerary because you really aren't supposed to have it anyway. Rules should be respected regardless if agents know to enforce them.
1) OP is EXP (oneworld emerald)
2) OP is on an international ticketed itinerary
3) oneworld access rules for status-based access state:
American Airlines AAdvantage® members, regardless of their tier status or class of travel, are not eligible for lounge access when travelling solely on North American flights within or between the U.S., Canada, Mexico (except Mexico City), the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Caribbean.
Oct 12, 2016, 6:26 pm
#1904
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
Uh, I don't see how the OP was wrong here.
1) OP is EXP (oneworld emerald)
2) OP is on an international ticketed itinerary
3) oneworld access rules for status-based access state:
Since the op is OWE, on an international itinerary (on a single ticket, no less), there should be access no matter when the international long haul flight is (those rules are for COS-based access). And it's certainly not grey area, it's clearly spelled out in the rules.
1) OP is EXP (oneworld emerald)
2) OP is on an international ticketed itinerary
3) oneworld access rules for status-based access state:
Since the op is OWE, on an international itinerary (on a single ticket, no less), there should be access no matter when the international long haul flight is (those rules are for COS-based access). And it's certainly not grey area, it's clearly spelled out in the rules.
Im EXP but I'm also QF P (emerald), I am in the FL and QF F LAX lounge every single time I fly out of LAX whether thats to Sydney or a hop to San Diego. I have gotten to know the QF agents over the past year and they just simply don't care sometimes and let people in by bending the rules because they can't be bothered with the countless arguments and confrontations they get every day for people insisting they have access. It gets so bad sometimes that they have to threaten with having security come to escort the pax away. Everyone seems to have their own interpretation as to what words mean and what rules apply and dont apply etc.
Last edited by wanderlust4life; Oct 15, 2016 at 11:21 pm
Oct 12, 2016, 7:25 pm
#1905
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
There it is, copied word for word. It does matter. PTY is not a long haul flight. It is under 5 hours. Therefore, access based on status is technically the only way for a person to get into the lounge when flying to PTY. "There should be access no matter when the int flight" is incorrect
Quoted from my post in the wiki,
Quoted from my post in the wiki,
As I said,
1) OP is EXP (oneworld emerald)
2) OP is on an international ticketed itinerary (is OP flying on a solely domestic itin? NO.)
3) Therefore, oneworld elite rules apply, not COS rules
Therefore, the only thing that matters is that at least one of the flights on the itinerary is an international one, according to the elite rules, PTY being covered under that situation. The duration of the the international flight, date of the international flight, where the international flight is departing from, etc is completely irrelevant. The only reason the fact there is a international flight is even relevant here, is due to exception no.2, which excludes AA FFP members from status-based access on solely domestic flights. Whatever you posted in the wiki is irrelevant (and appears to be incorrect, anyway). Again, there is no grey area here. OP should have access. Full stop.