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-   -   A Tale of Two Checkpoints (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/999630-tale-two-checkpoints.html)

magellan315 Sep 28, 2009 5:13 pm


Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean (Post 12452124)
Strictly speaking, they were right the first time. Tapes, audio or video, are supposed to be x-rayed. There's actually language in the SOP that requires them to be x-rayed.

And, strictly speaking, if you refuse to have them x-rayed, your only option is to turn around and take them back with you.

The person in the first story likely agreed to your request for a hand check just to shut you up, and the person in the second likely didn't know any better.

Dean, what we have here is a passenger who made reasonable request with an explanation and a series of TSO's who claimed to be supervisors, refused to contact the FSD, yelled at the passenger and threatened the passenger with the police. They didn't agree to the search to shut up the passenger, they did the search to shut up the TSO's who were out of line, out of control and causing a scene in front of witnesses.

AngryMiller Sep 28, 2009 5:33 pm


Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 12452241)
I would think that reel to reel tapes, having no external boxy case, could easily be hand inspected.

Incredibly easy to inspect if using the clear plastic reels. VCR and cassette tapes, a bit harder, but still within the range of easy. Just wish that TSOs would think a bit before automatically saying no to a reasonable request. Given the age of digital, many younger TSOs have never even seen either a reel to reel tape or tape recorder.

^^

Janus Sep 28, 2009 5:50 pm


Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean (Post 12452124)
Granted, there is a list of things that you can request to have hand-inspected. Still camera film, medications, x-rays (like, the medical kind). And of course, there are some things that have to be hand-inspected, such as... a fish in a bowl of water. :D

I am shocked that reel-to-reel is not allowed for hand inspection, while camera film is. It's basically the same thing. In fact, I would say that it is easier to check than sealed camera film. I would think that the policy should apply to all film/magnetic media whatever it might be (audio, video, data, etc).

Though it is not the TSO's fault, they are only working within the confines of what management lets them. My concern is with the people who write the rules. I know it is hard to make a set of rules that govern every condition, but the TSA has been at this for a few years now, I would hope they have made better progress than this.

IslandBased Sep 28, 2009 6:05 pm


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 12452391)
Incredibly easy to inspect if using the clear plastic reels. VCR and cassette tapes, a bit harder, but still within the range of easy. Just wish that TSOs would think a bit before automatically saying no to a reasonable request. Given the age of digital, many younger TSOs have never even seen either a reel to reel tape or tape recorder.

^^

At least TSA doesn't have an MRI at each check point. :rolleyes:

Probably the people at HQ who wrote the SOP are young, clueless, and idiots about technology prior to the PC era... It's not like they are going to be held accountable for destroying PTravel's property. I am very glad he stuck up for his rights.

AngryMiller Sep 28, 2009 6:09 pm


Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 12452527)
At least TSA doesn't have an MRI at each check point. :rolleyes:

Heard of a couple MRI techs (one rather bright, the other rather dense and obnoxious) where the bright one bets the other $50 that the other couldn't throw his wallet through the MRI machine without hitting the sides. The bright one said it was worth the $50 knowing that the other had just wiped out all of his credit cards....

N965VJ Sep 28, 2009 6:17 pm


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 12452391)
Given the age of digital, many younger TSOs have never even seen either a reel to reel tape or tape recorder.

Speaking of young whippersnappers that are not familiar with older types of media, can anyone picture a TSO pulling on the leader of an unexposed roll of 35mm film while inspecting it? :D

AngryMiller Sep 28, 2009 6:21 pm


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 12452584)
Speaking of young whippersnappers that are not familiar with older types of media, can anyone picture a TSO pulling on the leader of an unexposed roll of 35mm film while inspecting it? :D

During the Viet Nam War a guy in base supply got a request for some sheet film. He counted each and every sheet at his desk.

DeaconFlyer Sep 28, 2009 6:45 pm

Some of you guys crack me up. How many times have you posted that TSA should follow the SOP and that consistency is key? But when its revealed that an officer was actually correctly following SOP, you jump all over him for not bending the rules.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

AngryMiller Sep 28, 2009 7:07 pm


Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer (Post 12452695)
Some of you guys crack me up. How many times have you posted that TSA should follow the SOP and that consistency is key? But when its revealed that an officer was actually correctly following SOP, you jump all over him for not bending the rules.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

You are absolutely correct. There aren't enough books in the world to tell someone how to deal with every possible situation with people. Where the SOP comes into play is with routine passenger/TSA interactions. Where the deviations come into play it requires common sense and a bit of knowledge to ascertain what the passenger is saying is accurate and that a hand screening accomplishes what TSA is tasked to do (keeping weapons, explosives and incendiary devices off of the aircraft).

jkhuggins Sep 28, 2009 7:13 pm


Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer (Post 12452695)
Some of you guys crack me up. How many times have you posted that TSA should follow the SOP and that consistency is key? But when its revealed that an officer was actually correctly following SOP, you jump all over him for not bending the rules.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

Was it SOP for the TSOs in question to refuse to give their names, or the name of the FSD, or to call the FSD?

Was it SOP for the TSOs in question to threaten to call a LEO, yet not call the LEO over when the OP requested it?

Was it SOP for the TSOs to raise their voice in interacting with the OP?

Was it SOP for the TSOs to blindly follow their interpretation of the SOP, without "Engage!"-ing their discretionary judgment?

magellan315 Sep 28, 2009 7:42 pm


Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer (Post 12452695)
Some of you guys crack me up. How many times have you posted that TSA should follow the SOP and that consistency is key? But when its revealed that an officer was actually correctly following SOP, you jump all over him for not bending the rules.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

What SOP's would those be? Since the SOP's are SSI and not available to the general public for review we have no idea when to believe a TSO. TSO's have discretionary authority to prevent a passenger from bringing something past the checkpoint, even if it is not on the banned list. They could have used that same discretionary authority to help this passenger travel with their items as well.

DeaconFlyer Sep 28, 2009 8:33 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 12452808)
Was it SOP for the TSOs to blindly follow their interpretation of the SOP, without "Engage!"-ing their discretionary judgment?

Do you know if the SOP allows discretion or interpretation in this situation? If not, would you expect the TSO to "break" the rules because you don't agree with the SOP?


Originally Posted by magellan315 (Post 12452957)
They could have used that same discretionary authority to help this passenger travel with their items as well.

Could they? Should they? Do you really want TSOs making judgments on when to follow SOP, and when not to?

IslandBased Sep 28, 2009 8:43 pm


Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer (Post 12452695)
Some of you guys crack me up. How many times have you posted that TSA should follow the SOP and that consistency is key? But when its revealed that an officer was actually correctly following SOP, you jump all over him for not bending the rules.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

Destroying property is SOP? :confused::confused::confused:

DeaconFlyer Sep 28, 2009 9:12 pm


Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 12453296)
Destroying property is SOP? :confused::confused::confused:

Unless the OP walked to the airport, I would bet the motor of his car did more damage than the conveyor belt.

star_world Sep 28, 2009 9:32 pm

So, let me get this straight - this is a complaint about not being allowed to get your tapes hand-checked? Oh, no, wait - that got shot down pretty quickly. They were 100% within their rights to refuse that. Consistency is everything, remember? :rolleyes:

So - it must be about the TSO's attitude? Perhaps. Plenty of people would get riled up when some know-it-all starts preaching to them about how they know better and they should get special treatment. You just got somebody who reacted badly to this. I've been in the US for quite a while, and I see this happening in a variety of environments about... 10 times a day? How do you get anything done if you pursue each one of these and then document the encounter?

Sometimes you just need to move on. Or write a complaint letter. Then move on :confused:


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