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-   -   Travelling on a B1/B2 Visa - What rights does one have ? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/997908-travelling-b1-b2-visa-what-rights-does-one-have.html)

Fly2LAX Sep 23, 09 12:15 am

Travelling on a B1/B2 Visa - What rights does one have ?
 
I'm asking because a family member recently had a discussion with a CBP officer what his rights are when travelling under a B1/B2 Visa, NOT the Visa Waiver Programm.

Are there any specifics that keep travelling under a visa apart from the WVP ?

Like, does one have the right to appeal the officers decision (I know under the WVP you dont) ?

After what I heard the imformation that the CBP officer gave was somewhat different to what the consular officer quoted.

Thanks !

Roger Sep 23, 09 3:54 am

You don't describe the issue your family member had.

AIUI, the main points are B1/B2 visaholders can stay up to 6 months per stay; they cannot work for a US employer, but can for a foreign employer. I would think they have rights of appeal.

Fly2LAX Sep 23, 09 11:21 pm

I think it was about the appeal. He is in the US alot for long term vacations and the CBP officer last time admitted him but said that if he would stay too many times than any CBP officer could cancel the visa without any right to appeal that decision. The consular officer said otherwise and he especially asked about this particular issue considering how paranoid CBP are these days.

Thanks !

bawr Sep 24, 09 12:07 am

Among other things, B visa holders may apply to extend their stay while in the US and apply to adjust their status to a different type of visa. WVP users cannot do this.

gleff Sep 24, 09 6:11 am

Do not rely on statements from CBP officers. They rotate duties, on any given day you could wind up with one that's used to inspecting cargo.

Deeg Sep 24, 09 7:08 am


Originally Posted by Fly2LAX (Post 12428777)
...the CBP officer last time admitted him but said that if he would stay too many times than any CBP officer could cancel the visa without any right to appeal that decision. The consular officer said otherwise and he especially asked about this particular issue considering how paranoid CBP are these days.

Actually, neither was entirely right. CBP officers can indeed cancel visas without any appeal. However, it can only be done under certain circumstances, found in 22 CFR 41.122(h). Bascially, it would also require that CBP refuse his admission. Based on that refusal, the visa can be cancelled. Here's the law:


(h) Revocation of visa by immigration officer. An immigration officer is authorized to revoke a valid visa by physically canceling it
in accordance with the procedure prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section if:
(1) The alien obtains an immigrant visa or an adjustment of status to that of permanent resident;
(2) The alien is ordered excluded from the United States pursuant to INA 235(c) or 236;
(3) The alien is notified pursuant to INA 235(b) by an immigration officer at a port of entry that the alien appears to be inadmissible to
the United States and the alien requests and is granted permission to withdraw the application for admission;
(4) A final order of deportation or a final order granting voluntary departure with an alternate order of deportation is entered against the alien pursuant to DHS regulations;
(5) The alien has been permitted by DHS to depart voluntarily from the United States pursuant to DHS regulations;
(6) A waiver of ineligibility pursuant to INA 212(d)(3)(A) on the basis of which the visa was issued to the alien is revoked by DHS;
(7) The visa is presented in connection with an application for admission to the United States by a person other than the alien to whom it was issued; or
(8) The visa has been physically removed from the passport in which it was issued.
(9) The visa has been issued in a combined Mexican or Canadian B-1/B-2 visa and border crossing identification card and the officer makes the determination specified in Sec. 41.32(c) with respect to the alien's Mexican citizenship and/or residence or the determination
specified in Sec. 41.33(b) with respect to the alien's status as a permanent resident of Canada.

B747-437B Sep 24, 09 9:57 am


Originally Posted by Deeg (Post 12429907)
Actually, neither was entirely right. CBP officers can indeed cancel visas without any appeal. However, it can only be done under certain circumstances, found in 22 CFR 41.122(h). Bascially, it would also require that CBP refuse his admission. Based on that refusal, the visa can be cancelled.

Not exactly. From personal experience, I can state that a B1/B2 visa can be cancelled upon voluntary withdrawal of application for entry despite no formal determination of inadmissability or refusal of entry being made.

Taker Park Sep 24, 09 11:01 am


Originally Posted by gleff (Post 12429763)
Do not rely on statements from CBP officers. They rotate duties, on any given day you could wind up with one that's used to inspecting cargo.

False

Deeg Sep 24, 09 4:26 pm


Originally Posted by B747-437B (Post 12430797)
Not exactly. From personal experience, I can state that a B1/B2 visa can be cancelled upon voluntary withdrawal of application for entry despite no formal determination of inadmissability or refusal of entry being made.

Tehcnically, I guess that's correct. In either case, CBP has already determined the alien to be inadmissible. The only difference is whether the alien is ordered removed or chooses to withdraw their application for admission in lieu of being ordered removed. I suppose I oversimplified.

GUWonder Sep 24, 09 5:19 pm


Originally Posted by Taker Park (Post 12431173)
False

Actually what gleff noted is true. There are DHS employees who are far more used to dealing with cargo than passengers but who are now dealing with passengers as their primary duty. They are not all yet used to it, just as gleff correctly noted.

So many of the front-line DHS employees aren't familiar with the relevant parts of the CFRs involving passengers and don't even fully grasp the "dumbed" down version reflected in the employee manuals. No wonder that there are those higher up who have to clean up more than ever before. A growing number of the supervisors and many higher-ups don't themselves even fully understand the reading material relevant to the situation of passengers. It's a growing problem.

This stands:


Originally Posted by gleff
Do not rely on statements from CBP officers. They rotate duties, on any given day you could wind up with one that's used to inspecting cargo.

Better to rely upon lawyers.

TravellingMan Sep 24, 09 5:47 pm

While I was waiting for secondary in ATL, I noticed this case. An elderly lady was wheeled in and the officer asked how often she was in the US. Twice in the last year was the answer.

The officer then warned her, you have been here 12 out of the past 14 months. If you ever visit again, we will cancel your visa and send you back! If you want to stay here, ask your children to petition to live in the US.

6 months out of a year seems to be about right. Anything more than that seems to raise their suspicion of possible migrant.

B747-437B Sep 25, 09 8:52 am


Originally Posted by Deeg (Post 12433080)
Tehcnically, I guess that's correct. In either case, CBP has already determined the alien to be inadmissible. The only difference is whether the alien is ordered removed or chooses to withdraw their application for admission in lieu of being ordered removed. I suppose I oversimplified.

Not quite, and this is a subtle but very key point. The requirement is that CBP determines that the alien APPEARS to be inadmissable (22 CFR 41.122(h)(3)). This can be due to deficiency of documentation that supports the aliens claim to admissability. The determination of inadmissability is not actually made and the alien simply walks away. Once an alien is deemed to be inadmissable, there is the requirement for the alien to formally overcome that determination of inadmissability prior to subsequently being deemed admissable. That statutory requirement does not exist in the case of someone simply deemed to APPEAR to be inadmissable - they merely have to meet the lower burden of proof of establishing themselves as admissable.

Taker Park Sep 25, 09 9:28 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12433376)
Actually what gleff noted is true. There are DHS employees who are far more used to dealing with cargo than passengers but who are now dealing with passengers as their primary duty. They are not all yet used to it, just as gleff correctly noted.

So many of the front-line DHS employees aren't familiar with the relevant parts of the CFRs involving passengers and don't even fully grasp the "dumbed" down version reflected in the employee manuals. No wonder that there are those higher up who have to clean up more than ever before. A growing number of the supervisors and many higher-ups don't themselves even fully understand the reading material relevant to the situation of passengers. It's a growing problem.

This stands:



Better to rely upon lawyers.

Good point.

However, gleff makes it sound like an officer would be taken out of the cargo environment for one day to stamp passports. Very few ports of entry have rotations like that or would even consider it.

Also, on any given day you could have a brand new, straight out of the academy officer.

mohitmadaan Aug 27, 13 8:42 pm

Can one get credit card or driver's license on B1 visa?

alanR Aug 28, 13 1:15 am


Originally Posted by gleff (Post 12429763)
Do not rely on statements from CBP officers. They rotate duties, on any given day you could wind up with one that's used to inspecting cargo.

We are all cargo.


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