Thanks, and hello!

I actually think there are many "good guys" at TSA, but with that being said, there are some crap-balls, as I call them.

But don't be mistaken. I have had passengers very, very pissed off at me! They would never consider me a "good guy".

Looks like you just spoilin' for a fight. :p

Even if the forced ID verification at the checkpoint is legal the TSO still violated the passenger's right to travel by placing an undue restriction to that travel.

You admit the SOP allows for other IDs to be used and the person had plenty.

As for the illegal forced ID verification, if you think you can defend your position that they are legal, please start a separate thread.

It will be a while before I can get back to this board (2 am or so) but I look forward to your thread.

Sorry Trollkiller, but I just don't feel like discussing the legality of the ID check. I'm writing this on my iPhone right now.... But either way I think this topic has been covered in great detail on the TSA blog, and either you think one way about it or another.

And I didn't admit that SOP allows for different IDs to ne used, I stated it with no qualms. I don't know, the word "admit" implies...guilt, of which I have none regarding ID check. Those forms of IDs can be used when a government ID either is not there (lost or stolen) or when the govt ID does not exactly match.

What should have happened to this traveler according to SOP is they should have been allowed through, and possibly given additional screening.

However, what happened - the passenger not being allowed to go through the checkpoint - was not a result of TSA SOP, but of stupid TSOs and most likely stupid STSOs. Currently SOP allows there to be slight variations in the name on the ID and the BP.

Could say more, but won't. Too hard to type much with my big meat hooks of hands on my iPhone!

SATTSO, do you have a link to a TSA document that allows for alternative ID? Would love to have a print out if this ever comes up. Here is a link to a TSA doc that allows for first initial being acceptable. "Secure Flight allows first initial only; however, may cause a higher occurrence of Inhibited responses."

PHONES ARE FOR TALKING!!!!! Now get off my lawn!

I was hoping that you would be better able to defend the TSA's position about the legality of the forced ID verification than Francine was. If you wish to make a statement of fact you need to be able to back it. (I understand not wanting to do it from an iPhone, so do it at your leisure.)

"Admit" implies no guilt, that is your conscience talking to you. ;)

The reason I used the word "admit" is because most TSOs hide behind "SSI" when a story such as this occurs. They refuse to admit something is in the SOP even when it has been previously disclosed.

Frankly I was pleased that you freely admitted the TSO messed up and that the SOP allows for other means of identification. Keep up that openness and you will have people that disagree with you but respect you.

You know what is the funny part of this entire fiasco?

That the guy eventually got on the plane.

Who cares if he got on as Frank, Frances, Francis, or even Mickey Mouse?

The point is that he presented NO threat to the flight.

If he has been screened for WEI, what difference does it make who he is?

The TSA people involved need to go back to flipping burgers, and that assumes they were gainfully employed prior to being hired by TSA.

Sad not funny.

Sorry but the only resource I have is SOP, which I can not show you. However, think o it this way. Imagine you have you license stolen, how would you get through the checkpoint? The answer is that the TSO or STSO should ask if you have any other kind of ID, like a social security card, credit card, etc. If he entire wallet is lost so those items are not available then the procedure is to have a BDO "call in" the name and address and other info the passenger provides to confirm their identity and match that info to the BP.

In this case, since they did not accept the passport, they should have specifically asked for other ID that matched the BP. They did not seem to do this.

Hopefully this will be corrected at this airport. I can tell yu that a SAT we have not had these problems even when the name on the ID has not exactly matched the BP. It's easy to solve this "problem".

Can you tell us what section of the SOP has this information? (preferred format would be Title of publication, section, subsection)

MD 100.4 4(K) states that other IDs can be used. (WARNING 5 meg PDF) The section is on page 64 of the PDF document.

Page 3(page 6 of the pdf) of the Secure Flight Data Definitions (thanks OP) has the ultimate answer. "Known Traveler Number", 25 alpha-numeric characters, "assigned passenger number DHS uses to facilitate passenger clearance" and "Known Traveler Number will be for TSA-approved programs and is a future functionality."

25 characters is enough to assign a unique ID number to every person who ever lived plus include your DOB and gender and your country code plus one digit for a check sum. Say hello to your new World ID Serial Number. (Body tattoo and/or RFID implant optional. For now, anyway.)

When it is used, can the public request or FOIA their own KTN? It would save all the other time at reservations, and especially in lost ID situations, if the pax could simply recite his KTN and say "look that one up, that's me."

If TSA is going to turn into Big Brother, at least make it a user friendly system. :rolleyes:

I don't know exactly what the BDOs use but I do not think they verify the number you cite. They have no ability to verify the identity of a foreigner. I believe it has more to do with someething similar to a DMV or social security check, but I am not sure. As what you cited has a "country code" I'm pretty positive this is not what the BDOs use. In fact, I have learned that if the BDOs attempt to verify the identity of a foreigner, the service they call will actually hang up on them - so too if they person they are trying to verify has ANY form of ID and is a U.S. citizen, such as a credit card, library card, etc.

Sorry I think that is SSI. Personally I don't know why most of the SOP isn't made public, there is actually nohing bad there to hide. Also, SOP is found only on a computer now and though I am not at work I do not have access to a comp now and I am still on my iPhone. Yes, sadly, after one month of ownership, I believe Im hooked...

But just to be honest Trollkiller, since I signed papers when I started to work with TSA that I wouldn't reveal SSI, I have no problems upholding my aggrements, even if I think SOP should be public.

I agree that most of the SOP should be public, like the parts that are not SSI to begin with.

The "chapter and verse" where something like the ID policy is located, is not SSI nor can it be SSI according to the law governing SSI.

All I am asking for would be the equivalent of a page number, not the specific information contained in the page.

Take a look at Title 49 § 1520.5, the statute that defines what is and is not SSI. I have read it three times and I can not find anything that would come close to making the "chapter and verse" location SSI.

Maybe I missed it. (is possible as I read it from work)

As of last year there are really no pGe numbers nor sections (that I can remember for SSI). It is all on computer in the form of power point sides. In other words, if I wanted to look up SOP on how to clear a passenger who alarmed the walk through, or how to properly check a passengers ID, I do not look up a section, but search the database for a "topic". Each PowerPoint has page numbers, they all start from page 1. If I were to look I up and tell you a page from a particular section that wouldn't do you any good, I don't think.

The old SOP used to be in printed form and if you wanted to look something up you would find the topic on the index and turn to section 2.13, for example. But that is no more.

I should also say, just to be honest, I wouldn't give out a section or page number unless I wAs given permission by an authority at TSA. I do not feel I am hiding behind SSI, it's just that I have been instructed not to release info, to which I agreed, and until I find out otherwise, caution seems to be the better part of wisdom.

However, I wil add something about our current SOP. Some of it is in video form. It's absolutely something that can not be in printed form. This last year we went from a written SOP available in a printed binder to all on PowerPoint slides some attached with videos. I do not believe what I am telling you mow is SSI. Hope I am not wrong. I have heard from a reliable source at our airport when he address a small group of us (our FSD) this upcoming year our SOP will be on both the comp and once again printed. Is this true? I think the plans are true as related by our FSD, but when will they carry it out, that I couldn't tell you.