Secret: While I agree there are requirements for physical conditioning, stamina, self-control, insight, instinct, "street smarts..." the list could go on ... NONE of those will get a LEO fired like a lie will...particularly if it's in a report, an official memo or statement to a supervisor or in sworn testimony. Getting caught in a lie, the LEO is routinely terminated. Get out of the academy, put a few years behind you and go through a couple duty belts - each a bit larger than the last - and you fly a desk (perhaps at the airport...) you get put on probation, you're told to "loose weight," but you don't get fired anywhere as quickly as telling that lie. While he can loose weight, he can't get his integrity back. Can't seem to sort out the good guys from the bad guys on the street (insight, street smarts, etc)...well, you're likely to get promoted (think: Peter Principle) or moved to a position where you don't need those skills to keep from getting dead...but you rarely get fired.

Now, let's consider self-control...what is a lack of self-control almost inevitably going to lead to? Beating a handcuffed prisoner? Stealing something on duty (or off)? Using your official position to circumvent airport security......? And then where does THAT lead to? Lying about it perhaps?

I understand what you're saying, the traits we'd like to see in a LEO would INCLUDE pride (in himself and his department and job), integrity (need I say more?) and guts. I agree, too, there's more to the at-airport portion of the story than meets the eye here but that doesn't change the notion that when he lies to his department about what he did, THAT destroys his integrity making him worthless as a LEO.

Well, you started off by saying that the a cop's only stock in trade is his or her integrity, but you're being a bit more reasonable now.

But I wonder whether what you actually say above is true: I know I certainly have heard numerous anecdotal stories about police officers lying and colluding with other officers to lie, which suggests that there's lots of lying going on in police stations (as in every other workplace, I should add) but of course anecdotal stories aren't helpful when they're not proven and there's no sense of scale to them.

One often hears the beginning of stories like these but less frequently the end result: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sfl-h...,1246490.story
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04142008...dal_106460.htm

It depends on the nature of the lie and the situation it was used in. Police Officers are permitted to use deception (lies) in obtaining statements from suspects. I.E.... we have 3 people who saw you do it and they are giving a statement right now. Why not give us your version if why you did it?

However, if there is some type of inquiry (internal investigation, supervisor asking you about something, etc) and you lie there..... then youre done.

In this state the police certification board has one saying that gets repeated often.... you lie, you die.

Oh, yes, no, I wasn't referring to that. I meant more, "well, you're Big Dave's brother, I owe him a favor, so how about I say you're not drunk" or "well, obviously I saw you punch him in the face for no reason, Officer Barbrady, but how about I just write that he was belligerant" lies.

Yea, I totally agree with you on this...... if you do this... you should be done. I know where I work if this happened.... youre fired or given the opportunity to resign.

Then they send it to the certification board to take action. And they do just that. They also publish it on the web for all to see.....

We can't forget his fantastic handling of the Nakatomi Plaza either. That was a sterling example of seizing the moment and making a difference.

*****

emphasis mine: i would hope the fsd is not happy ;). but seriously, you hit the nail on the head ^ as "appearances can mean everything" and where the tsa has not been shall we say, "forthcoming with information", it just adds to that "appearance". imho, if the tsa had simply come out and said that the employee "was terminated for violating policy by bringing an unauthorized handgun into the secure area" (or something similar) instead of hiding behind "privacy", it would have been a non-issue and the tsa would have saved some face. in addition, had the local d/a (state or fed as i'm not sure of the jurisdiction) had the stones (oops, decided ;)) to prosecute, it would have also been a non-issue and again, imho, saved the tsa some "face time"

Considering all the horror stories we hear about this security "shell" agency which is trying to be prominent governent department, i don't think what the cop did was unreasonable.

I think the question is whether should common sense prevail over a probable overzealous TSA official.

The cop was a genuine police officer. He didn't masquarade as a ficticious police officer. Abuse of police privileges, maybe? But TSA abuse their authority on a daily basis and there is no way to make them understand they are not above the law.

"Police privileges" is an abuse of authority. Police have NO privileges, they are not a better class than the average citizen.

*****

That sums up the problem in a nutshell. There are no "privileges" in law enforcement. Only responsibilities. You think to yourself: "Oh, how nice it would be to never have to go through screening". Until you realize that YOU are at the mercy of everyone else. Have a GA or FA that's being a b!tch? Suck it up cupcake, you can't do much about it. They know who you are and where you work. One complaint can keep you typing for hours. Remember, in law enforcement, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Think a badge may get you out of a traffic ticket? You may be right, or you may get fired for trying to use your position to avoid law enforcement action.

How about a nice free cup of coffee? Accepting gratuities can send you to the unemployment line as well.

How about if you do absolutely nothing? You're at home playing with the kids and you get a phone call. Mr. X has been arrested for crime Y and he says he knows you. Maybe you know him well, in passing or he's a friend of a friend. Now, your integrity is going to be questioned. How do you know him? What is really the level of association? Why is he comfortable dropping your name? Are you somehow involved? Again, you're guilty until proven innocent.

You think those are "privileges"?

yes i also agree but (and you know me ;)) h/r looks likes to also look at rules as to "how to prevent us/the company from being sued" ;)

I think you may be right... http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/

I just wish I could find the story about the NYPD officer that was speeding through (I don't know) Indiana on vacation. He got pulled over, showed his license and NYPD identification ... and then wrote a letter to the NYPD police union newspaper (or something) to complain about the fact he wasn't let off the ticket!

:mad: I know there's something useful to be gained from a poly at times but I put them on a higher scale of quackery than palm reading or chiropractic (and I've been to a chiro)...