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-   -   Stop them before someone dies.... (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/980446-stop-them-before-someone-dies.html)

Global_Hi_Flyer Jul 30, 2009 5:24 pm

Stop them before someone dies....
 
Saw this posted elsewhere. It's apparently from an ASRS (Aviation Safety Reporting System) report:


I was notified by my supervisor that an aircraft was coming in from ZZZ with a broken tamper seal on the forward lavatory O2 mask door. Our initial thought was that we needed to replace the broken seal. We later discovered that a seal is not required and that the tsa in ZZZ had put it on. I questioned maintenance control and they were aware of it and allowed the plane to fly with this seal in place. We took a lengthy delay investigating this and in the end we removed the seal; opened the O2 door and verified that the masks were packed correctly and re-closed the door. Today; another aircraft had the same issue; however; this time we did not know about it ahead of time. Apparently a fleet service supervisor told one of our technicians about the tape this time and I was notified just before push time. This time the seal was not broken so the forward lavatory O2 mask door was disabled by the tsa.
...........
I can't believe the airline or the FAA would allow the tsa to perform undocumented maintenance on one of our aircrafts; resulting in a disabled emergency O2 system.
Full text here

ASRS = a voluntary system run by NASA that allows people involved in the aviation industry - crew, mechanics, pilots, atc, etc. to anonymously report events or conditions that might affect safety of flight.

AngryMiller Jul 30, 2009 5:30 pm

Ah, TSA employees feel that non-TSA rules and regulations don't apply to them and as such are free to do whatever they want to without fear of consequences.

Ari Jul 30, 2009 6:27 pm

So why is he posting on some anonymous blog? Shouldn't he do something that will get this investigated?

If the 02 masks deploy, the O2 masks in the lav will not drop and the passenger in the lav will not see other masks dropping around him and will not even know he is missing one.

goalie Jul 30, 2009 6:30 pm


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 12150151)
Ah, TSA employees feel that non-TSA rules and regulations don't apply to them and as such are free to do whatever they want to without fear of consequences.

yup-just like they can climb 'n crawl all over an a/c on the tarmac, subsequently break the pitot tube and not be held responsible and/or accountable :mad:

greentips Jul 30, 2009 8:04 pm


Originally Posted by Ari (Post 12150390)
So why is he posting on some anonymous blog? Shouldn't he do something that will get this investigated?

If the 02 masks deploy, the O2 masks in the lav will not drop and the passenger in the lav will not see other masks dropping around him and will not even know he is missing one.

The NASA ASRS is not an anonymous blog. This system has been in place for decades to allow air crews, controllers, maintenance personnel to file a written report of events that happen in aircraft in flight, preparing for flight or after landing. NASA analysts review them for patterns which might affect aviation safety. Then they make periodic reports and recommendations.

The intent and purpose of this is to permit truthful, candid reports of events that happen during air operations without fear of an enforcement action. It requires a written report and a receipt is mailed to the originator with a date stamp. It must be sent within 10 days of the event and is anonymized after NASA receives it.

This is precisely the type of event this system is supposed to be used for.

Now, as for whomever placed that tape over an oxygen mask door which is supposed to deploy when there is an unexpected rapid cabin depressurization has done several things:
1. They have disabled an essential safety mechanism, rendering the aircraft unairworthy.
2. They have performed maintenance on an aircraft likely not having in their possession an Airframe and Powerplant rating granted by the FAA authorizing them to perform maintenance on an airframe, thus rendering the aircraft unairworthy until it is inspected by an Airframe mechanic with an Inspection Authorization.
3. They have potentially place the life of an occupant of the lav at risk, and thus you are correct. A formal report should be made to the local Flight Standards District Office and the airline's Primary Maintenance Inspector to determine who authorized an unrated mechanic to make changes to the airframe not in compliance with the manufacturer's maintenance manuals or contrary to FAA AC-43 on a certificated airplane.

The FSDO should make all effort to find the guilty parties and haul their sorry butts before the local administrative law judge and fine the snot out of them. Or get the FBI involved. Tampering with an aircraft is a federal offense and does come under the FBI's jurisdiction.

And maybe the airlines should hire off duty FFDOs to guard the airplanes while on the ground against anyone who might wish to climb on pitoh/static systems, flight control surfaces, or tamper with aircraft equipment. Or pilots might just decide to write up a maintenance squawk stating the aircraft was tampered with and ground the plane until maintenance goes over the entire aircraft. A few of these, particularly if they depart DCA when congress is leaving might get someone's attention.

RadioGirl Jul 30, 2009 9:15 pm


Originally Posted by greentips (Post 12150782)
Now, as for whomever placed that tape over an oxygen mask door which is supposed to deploy when there is an unexpected rapid cabin depressurization has done several things:...

That all sounds very logical, but you must be missing something. We've been told over and over again that everything TSA does is, by definition and no matter how irrational it appears to us mere mortals, for the safety and security of aircraft and passengers. Right? Ron or one of his friends will be along shortly to explain that there's an SSI reason for TSA to screw with essential safety equipment, but that they don't have time for all that training and authorization that you talk about, because it's "only a young agency" and "they're only human." :rolleyes::rolleyes: (BTW, "Airframe and Powerplant rating" sounds harder than checking IDs. Is it? ;))

Originally Posted by greentips (Post 12150782)
The FSDO should make all effort to find the guilty parties and haul their sorry butts before the local administrative law judge and fine the snot out of them. Or get the FBI involved. Tampering with an aircraft is a federal offense and does come under the FBI's jurisdiction.

Sure, but we all know what will really happen, based on the story of pitot-guy in ORD: The key phrases are already in TSA's response to that incident.

...following through on regulatory inspection activity. ...TSA is reviewing the inspection results and depending on the conclusion, could take action with the airline....

While the inspection process is a vital layer of aviation security, it is not TSA’s intent to cause delays or potential damage to aircraft as a result of our inspections. TSA took immediate steps to re-enforce education about sensitive equipment ...

Superguy Jul 30, 2009 9:46 pm


Originally Posted by goalie (Post 12150403)
yup-just like they can climb 'n crawl all over an a/c on the tarmac, subsequently break the pitot tube and not be held responsible and/or accountable :mad:

AND threaten to fine the airline for noncompliance. :td:

Boggie Dog Jul 30, 2009 9:54 pm


Originally Posted by greentips (Post 12150782)
The NASA ASRS is not an anonymous blog. This system has been in place for decades to allow air crews, controllers, maintenance personnel to file a written report of events that happen in aircraft in flight, preparing for flight or after landing. NASA analysts review them for patterns which might affect aviation safety. Then they make periodic reports and recommendations.

The intent and purpose of this is to permit truthful, candid reports of events that happen during air operations without fear of an enforcement action. It requires a written report and a receipt is mailed to the originator with a date stamp. It must be sent within 10 days of the event and is anonymized after NASA receives it.

This is precisely the type of event this system is supposed to be used for.

Now, as for whomever placed that tape over an oxygen mask door which is supposed to deploy when there is an unexpected rapid cabin depressurization has done several things:
1. They have disabled an essential safety mechanism, rendering the aircraft unairworthy.
2. They have performed maintenance on an aircraft likely not having in their possession an Airframe and Powerplant rating granted by the FAA authorizing them to perform maintenance on an airframe, thus rendering the aircraft unairworthy until it is inspected by an Airframe mechanic with an Inspection Authorization.
3. They have potentially place the life of an occupant of the lav at risk, and thus you are correct. A formal report should be made to the local Flight Standards District Office and the airline's Primary Maintenance Inspector to determine who authorized an unrated mechanic to make changes to the airframe not in compliance with the manufacturer's maintenance manuals or contrary to FAA AC-43 on a certificated airplane.

The FSDO should make all effort to find the guilty parties and haul their sorry butts before the local administrative law judge and fine the snot out of them. Or get the FBI involved. Tampering with an aircraft is a federal offense and does come under the FBI's jurisdiction.

And maybe the airlines should hire off duty FFDOs to guard the airplanes while on the ground against anyone who might wish to climb on pitoh/static systems, flight control surfaces, or tamper with aircraft equipment. Or pilots might just decide to write up a maintenance squawk stating the aircraft was tampered with and ground the plane until maintenance goes over the entire aircraft. A few of these, particularly if they depart DCA when congress is leaving might get someone's attention.


I think your on the right track however if anyone is performing any kind of maintenance on an airplane and does not hold the proper certificates then they should be properly charged with a crime and hauled into Federal Court for trial.

They are a hazard to the passengers flying on the aircraft, to the crew and potentially to themselves.

If they work for DHS then they should be buried under the jail.

Gaucho100K Jul 31, 2009 3:52 am

Wirelessly posted (Nokia N97 / Palm TX: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D050; Blazer/4.3) 16;320x448)

scary...... :eek:

n4zhg Jul 31, 2009 6:06 am


Originally Posted by greentips (Post 12150782)
The FSDO should make all effort to find the guilty parties and haul their sorry butts before the local administrative law judge and fine the snot out of them. Or get the FBI involved. Tampering with an aircraft is a federal offense and does come under the FBI's jurisdiction.

Good luck with that. TSA is above the law, just ask them.

fortyyearvet Jul 31, 2009 6:20 am

stop them
 
currently work for an FAA Repair Station. I'm not an A&P as I'm in marketing, but I am very familiar with FARS etc. everything that has been noted by prior posters is correct regarding airworthiness compliance, but I'd like to add one other point of interest.

all of our A&P's undergo mandated random drug tests. We just had the local agency that administers them in yesterday as a matter of fact. They do about 10% of our group every time (we have about 40-45 hands-on folks).

don't know what TSA's drug policy is as far as testing. probably have to pass one prior to employment. doubt if they are tested subsequently. maybe one of our TSO's can answer that.

either way if the TSO's are even so much as touching a part they are breaking the law.

Coralreef Lover Jul 31, 2009 7:08 am


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 12150151)
Ah, TSA employees feel that non-TSA rules and regulations don't apply to them and as such are free to do whatever they want to without fear of consequences.

What's the role of the FAA these days?

N965VJ Jul 31, 2009 10:16 am

It’s amazing how clueless the TSA is around aircraft. From holding their hand under a steam of Skydrol, climbing on aircraft damaging the pitot tubes and AOA vanes, to disabling safety equipment.

Just more reasons to keep the TSA’s mitts off General Aviation.

LoganTSO Jul 31, 2009 10:21 am


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 12153836)
From holding their hand under a steam of Skydrol

How do you hold your hand under steam? Especially Skydrol... in fact... wouldn't it really bad if the Skydrol was evaporating into steam?

:D

YCTTSFM Jul 31, 2009 11:46 am


Originally Posted by LoganTSO (Post 12153871)
How do you hold your hand under steam? Especially Skydrol... in fact... wouldn't it really bad if the Skydrol was evaporating into steam?

:D

If you hold you hand underneath, it's the precipitating Skydrol rain that'll gitcha... :p


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