TSA plans to replace the walk-through metal detect with MMW
Apr 22, 2009, 8:39 pm
#31
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: washington dc
Programs: ual, aa, hertz, starwood, hilton
Posts: 398
Way to go! ^ (Oops, I didn't mean anything about gropers with that gooser-looking thumbs up!)
Apr 22, 2009, 8:49 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 47
"It's easy."
"We'll have to PAT YOU DOWN. That will take much longer."
"What have you got to hide?"
"It won't hurt you."
They REALLY LIKE their new toy.
Apr 22, 2009, 8:52 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
If they're pressuring you, it doesn't sound as optional as PV is making it seem.
Curious, did you see a sign showing the pics?
Apr 22, 2009, 9:01 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 47
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
I believe they will intentionally make refusal's as inconvenient as possible. ("PICK YOUR FOOT UP HIGHER! HIGHER! CAN YOU PICK IT UP HIGHER?!!? DO YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!?" CAN YOU FACE YOUR PALMS UP??? DON'T LOOK AT ME! DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!!")
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
I believe they will intentionally make refusal's as inconvenient as possible. ("PICK YOUR FOOT UP HIGHER! HIGHER! CAN YOU PICK IT UP HIGHER?!!? DO YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!?" CAN YOU FACE YOUR PALMS UP??? DON'T LOOK AT ME! DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!!")
Apr 22, 2009, 9:11 pm
#35
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 47
I didn't notice signs with demo pics (but I wasn't really looking for them).
I did notice that between the WTMD and the WWM there was nothing indicating that it was optional and an optional pat-down was not offered at all (before I refused, that is).
I did notice that between the WTMD and the WWM there was nothing indicating that it was optional and an optional pat-down was not offered at all (before I refused, that is).
Last edited by DRZ; Apr 22, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Apr 22, 2009, 9:35 pm
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
The only thing I would have added to the "no thanks" is "I don't submit to strip searches." If anything, maybe the sheeple might have picked up on it and started to think.
Apr 23, 2009, 12:45 am
#37
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 85
Just so I am clear on this... I will not be directly told that I will be walking through the "stripping machine"? Just herded in a certain direction? Where there may or may not be some small signs indicating this visual assault is voluntary? I dont travel nearly as much as most here, so I dont want to be caught off guard/naked. As for the pat down - I would expect a woman to do that to me.... being that I am a woman.... or is that an unreasonable expectation?
Apr 23, 2009, 5:26 am
#38
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
I believe they will intentionally make refusal's as inconvenient as possible. ("PICK YOUR FOOT UP HIGHER! HIGHER! CAN YOU PICK IT UP HIGHER?!!? DO YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!?" CAN YOU FACE YOUR PALMS UP??? DON'T LOOK AT ME! DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!!")
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
"No thanks."
I believe they will intentionally make refusal's as inconvenient as possible. ("PICK YOUR FOOT UP HIGHER! HIGHER! CAN YOU PICK IT UP HIGHER?!!? DO YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!?" CAN YOU FACE YOUR PALMS UP??? DON'T LOOK AT ME! DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!!")
"PICK YOUR FOOT UP HIGHER! HIGHER! CAN YOU PICK IT UP HIGHER?!!?" - Response: NO!
DO YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!?" Response: Yes and it's none of your business. Use this whether or not you have a medical condition.
CAN YOU FACE YOUR PALMS UP??? Response: NO!
DON'T LOOK AT ME! DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!! Response: Why not? I want to get a good look at the person who is groping me.
Apr 23, 2009, 8:33 am
#39
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: RDU
Programs: Status Free
Posts: 214
Declined in RDU
Hi
The new (last November) Terminal 2 in RDU has a MMW machine. The set-up of security has it relatively distant fron the Black Diamond/Elite lane that I normally use. Far enough, in fact, that I've never seen any one from that line selected.
On Monday, 4/20, the other lanes were significantly shorter, so I went to them. As I was loading my gear into the X-ray machine, I heard the TSO on the other side of the metal detector say "The next one?" AS I went through, he motioned me to the MMW machine. The machine is only 2-3 steps away, so not much chance to observe your surroundings in terms of signage. You're blocking the metal detector. I saw one approximately 5"x8" sign mounted on a stanchion, so lower than waist level, that stated it was not mandatory. No pix, no explanation of the alternatives if you refuse.
I politely declined. I must have been the first ever ;-) The male TSO looked stunned. He called for a patdown and, somewhat sharply/annoyed, told me to move left and to not remove my possessions from the X-ray belt. BTW, the way the MMW booth is oriented between two lanes, the x-ray belt for the intermediate lane is behind the machine, so I would not have been able to keep my possessions in view.
A female TSO came to me, asked me to put my arms up. She patted down my arms and my upper back. No front, nothing below the waist. Very abbreviated patdown. And she giggled the entire time she was doing it.
Summary:
No significant attitude for declining, just mystification. Cursory patdown.
The new (last November) Terminal 2 in RDU has a MMW machine. The set-up of security has it relatively distant fron the Black Diamond/Elite lane that I normally use. Far enough, in fact, that I've never seen any one from that line selected.
On Monday, 4/20, the other lanes were significantly shorter, so I went to them. As I was loading my gear into the X-ray machine, I heard the TSO on the other side of the metal detector say "The next one?" AS I went through, he motioned me to the MMW machine. The machine is only 2-3 steps away, so not much chance to observe your surroundings in terms of signage. You're blocking the metal detector. I saw one approximately 5"x8" sign mounted on a stanchion, so lower than waist level, that stated it was not mandatory. No pix, no explanation of the alternatives if you refuse.
I politely declined. I must have been the first ever ;-) The male TSO looked stunned. He called for a patdown and, somewhat sharply/annoyed, told me to move left and to not remove my possessions from the X-ray belt. BTW, the way the MMW booth is oriented between two lanes, the x-ray belt for the intermediate lane is behind the machine, so I would not have been able to keep my possessions in view.
A female TSO came to me, asked me to put my arms up. She patted down my arms and my upper back. No front, nothing below the waist. Very abbreviated patdown. And she giggled the entire time she was doing it.
Summary:
No significant attitude for declining, just mystification. Cursory patdown.
Apr 23, 2009, 9:01 am
#40
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Hi
The machine is only 2-3 steps away, so not much chance to observe your surroundings in terms of signage. You're blocking the metal detector. I saw one approximately 5"x8" sign mounted on a stanchion, so lower than waist level, that stated it was not mandatory. No pix, no explanation of the alternatives if you refuse.
I politely declined. I must have been the first ever ;-) The male TSO looked stunned. He called for a patdown and, somewhat sharply/annoyed, told me to move left and to not remove my possessions from the X-ray belt. BTW, the way the MMW booth is oriented between two lanes, the x-ray belt for the intermediate lane is behind the machine, so I would not have been able to keep my possessions in view.
A female TSO came to me, asked me to put my arms up. She patted down my arms and my upper back. No front, nothing below the waist. Very abbreviated patdown. And she giggled the entire time she was doing it.
Summary:
No significant attitude for declining, just mystification. Cursory patdown.
The machine is only 2-3 steps away, so not much chance to observe your surroundings in terms of signage. You're blocking the metal detector. I saw one approximately 5"x8" sign mounted on a stanchion, so lower than waist level, that stated it was not mandatory. No pix, no explanation of the alternatives if you refuse.
I politely declined. I must have been the first ever ;-) The male TSO looked stunned. He called for a patdown and, somewhat sharply/annoyed, told me to move left and to not remove my possessions from the X-ray belt. BTW, the way the MMW booth is oriented between two lanes, the x-ray belt for the intermediate lane is behind the machine, so I would not have been able to keep my possessions in view.
A female TSO came to me, asked me to put my arms up. She patted down my arms and my upper back. No front, nothing below the waist. Very abbreviated patdown. And she giggled the entire time she was doing it.
Summary:
No significant attitude for declining, just mystification. Cursory patdown.
It is becoming more and more apparent that signage at the virtual strip machine is totally inadequate to inform passengers of what they are letting themselves in for.
Maybe USA Today could do a story on this without any input from the TSA......photos of the alleged signage and a reporter stopping pax in the "sterile" area who have gone through the machine to ask them if they know what happened and showing them a large sized picture of the strip search.
I'd bet that would be most illuminating.
Apr 23, 2009, 9:05 am
#41
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: *wood Gold
Posts: 1,781
TSA: "It's easy."
Me (in a loud voice): "It's also obscene, allows TSA agents to look at your NAKED body, and is a violation of my Constitutional rights."
TSA: "We'll have to PAT YOU DOWN. That will take much longer."
Me: "Make sure you use a male agent. And make sure he changes his gloves with a fresh pair-- out of a box, not his pocket. I've read the articles that talk about TSA agents HAVING SCABIES. Also make sure my carry ons stay in my view AND UNTOUCHED the entire time. I know that TSA agents STEAL from passengers and CANNOT BE TRUSTED."
TSA: "It won't hurt you."
Me: "I'm hurt every time my privacy is needlessly trampled upon and my Constitutional rights are violated. By the way, EXACTLY what tripped the need for this secondary search?"
TSA: "What have you got to hide?"
Me: "Plenty from your perverts who are sitting in another room, probably jacking off to the images of naked people they're seeing."
As you can see, I'm ready and primed for confrontation with these idiots.
Apr 23, 2009, 11:39 am
#42
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DCA
Programs: AA GLD 1MM
Posts: 49
Refused the MMW at RIC yesterday.
I did not alarm on the metal-detector but was told to "step into the machine." There were no obvious signs or pictures explaining the machine. I responded with "I prefer to be screened by hand." Only reply: "male assist!" They didn't seem alarmed or surprised, but I did get the typical full secondary wanding and patdown.
I did not alarm on the metal-detector but was told to "step into the machine." There were no obvious signs or pictures explaining the machine. I responded with "I prefer to be screened by hand." Only reply: "male assist!" They didn't seem alarmed or surprised, but I did get the typical full secondary wanding and patdown.
Apr 23, 2009, 11:42 am
#43
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 507
Need to show refusal of MMW
Ought to come up with a wristband, shirt, or label that show I'll always refuse to go thru the machines.
Don't know if that will get me bypassed more or not.
The machines still take twice as long as the metal detector, cost ten times as much, you still have to take off shoes, and it radiates you.
No brainer.
A big ^ to all that refuse.
Don't know if that will get me bypassed more or not.
The machines still take twice as long as the metal detector, cost ten times as much, you still have to take off shoes, and it radiates you.
No brainer.
A big ^ to all that refuse.
Apr 23, 2009, 1:18 pm
#45
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 507
Think you'd be able to find where scanners are on the tsa blog, but no.
It would be a good question for them, if they wouldn't think it a security issue.
A quick search found the following airports having them:
SFO, MIA, ABQ, TUL, SLC, LAS, LAX, DEN, JFK, BWI, DFW,ORD, PHX, DTT, IAD, MSP
International (sorry no specifics)
Britain, Spain, Japan, Australia, Mexico, Thailand and the Netherlands
Mind you there might be only one at an entire airport, or a trial was finished and the scanner was moved elsewhere, but its a start.
If anyone wants to do a few MR's, could validate.
It would be a good question for them, if they wouldn't think it a security issue.
A quick search found the following airports having them:
SFO, MIA, ABQ, TUL, SLC, LAS, LAX, DEN, JFK, BWI, DFW,ORD, PHX, DTT, IAD, MSP
International (sorry no specifics)
Britain, Spain, Japan, Australia, Mexico, Thailand and the Netherlands
Mind you there might be only one at an entire airport, or a trial was finished and the scanner was moved elsewhere, but its a start.
If anyone wants to do a few MR's, could validate.
