am I allowed to refuse pat-downs by TSA officers of the same sex?
Mar 7, 2009, 11:09 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 135
am I allowed to refuse pat-downs by TSA officers of the same sex?
am I allowed to refuse pat-downs by TSA officers of the same sex?
for reasons that I will not go into here, I have never felt comfortable
getting a pat-down by someone of the same sex as me. in fact, it is
extremely disturbing to me. but I have never had the courage to say
anything. Instead, I just accepted it as a necessary evil of air travel.
are there others who feel the same way?
for reasons that I will not go into here, I have never felt comfortable
getting a pat-down by someone of the same sex as me. in fact, it is
extremely disturbing to me. but I have never had the courage to say
anything. Instead, I just accepted it as a necessary evil of air travel.
are there others who feel the same way?
Mar 7, 2009, 11:42 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near The Liberty Bell
Programs: DL, WN, AA
Posts: 361
No
No you may not refuse. Except in an extraordinary circumstance where a person of the same gender is absolutely not available, you will always be screened by someone of the same gender. Opposite gender screening opens TSA and the TSO up to sexual harassment issues more so than a same gender screening would.
Mar 8, 2009, 7:02 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
No you may not refuse. Except in an extraordinary circumstance where a person of the same gender is absolutely not available, you will always be screened by someone of the same gender. Opposite gender screening opens TSA and the TSO up to sexual harassment issues more so than a same gender screening would.
If gender, the only way to know is to ask. If sex, what's the precise definition used? How do you handle trans people, both pre-op and post-op?
Again, as my genderqueer friends would say, "this rule represents very gender-binary thinking".
Mar 8, 2009, 7:58 am
#5
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near The Liberty Bell
Programs: DL, WN, AA
Posts: 361
The subject of this thread talks about same sex and you say the same gender. As my genderqueer friends point out, those two are very different. Which does the rule say?
If gender, the only way to know is to ask. If sex, what's the precise definition used? How do you handle trans people, both pre-op and post-op?
Again, as my genderqueer friends would say, "this rule represents very gender-binary thinking".
If gender, the only way to know is to ask. If sex, what's the precise definition used? How do you handle trans people, both pre-op and post-op?
Again, as my genderqueer friends would say, "this rule represents very gender-binary thinking".
Mar 8, 2009, 8:14 am
#6
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
The SOP uses the term same gender to mean male on male, female on female. It also states that transgender passengers are to be screened an officer of the gender that they present themselves to be. I.E. If you are a male and present yourself as a female, then you are screened by a female.
Mar 8, 2009, 11:03 am
#7
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 684
What about genderqueer? Many genderqueer people do not identify as either standard gender and would consider it quote offensive and discriminatory for them to be forced to choose. And what does it mean to "present" as a particular gender? Do you go by biological appearance? Clothing style? Hairstyle? Or what?
Last edited by magellan315; Mar 8, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Mar 8, 2009, 11:26 am
#8
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,015
Are you in line at an American airport?
You are at the mercy of the TSA, and it is all legal.
Bend over, shut up, and keep lining up for more, if you think it wise. I find the reports from folks such as yourself rather amusing.
MY mother never raised such a foolish child...
You are at the mercy of the TSA, and it is all legal.
Bend over, shut up, and keep lining up for more, if you think it wise. I find the reports from folks such as yourself rather amusing.
MY mother never raised such a foolish child...
Mar 9, 2009, 7:02 am
#9
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: HOU
Posts: 459
Additionally, why is it that only male-female or female-male screening is open to sexual harassment? Can men not be harassed by other men or women by women? If the intent is to avoid sexual situations, what about the hommersexuals? I mean, wouldn't it be inappropriate for a gay dude to get his jollies from a male screener in the same way that someone straight would get their jollies from a woman?
Or, as I have been informed in government administered sexual harrassment training - is it that hommersexuality is doesn't exist.
Mar 9, 2009, 11:01 am
#10
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
Mar 9, 2009, 11:23 am
#11
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 400
I'm sure that sexual harrassment suits can be alleged against officers of the same gender, but it would be less likely to occur when compared to being screened by the opposite gender.
Typically, the phrase "How the passenger presents his/her self" is taken by visual means, referencing appearance and body language. I have seen instances where we have been incorrect in our judgement. Many times, you can't go by reading their names on their boarding cards, because many names can be used by both sexes. You make the best judgement call you can. Normally, what I'd do is ask for their license when presenting their baording card and read what gender is listed on the license. If I'm wrong, then I promptly report it to management. Hasn't failed me, yet.....
Everyone has the right to refuse being screened by an officer of the same gender. The only drawback is that you will not be allowed to proceed into the sterile area. Depending on the situation, it may result in LEO intervention.
Typically, the phrase "How the passenger presents his/her self" is taken by visual means, referencing appearance and body language. I have seen instances where we have been incorrect in our judgement. Many times, you can't go by reading their names on their boarding cards, because many names can be used by both sexes. You make the best judgement call you can. Normally, what I'd do is ask for their license when presenting their baording card and read what gender is listed on the license. If I'm wrong, then I promptly report it to management. Hasn't failed me, yet.....
Everyone has the right to refuse being screened by an officer of the same gender. The only drawback is that you will not be allowed to proceed into the sterile area. Depending on the situation, it may result in LEO intervention.
Mar 9, 2009, 2:00 pm
#13
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 400
Mar 9, 2009, 6:53 pm
#14
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ORD
Programs: CO PLT, HH DIA
Posts: 1,461
am I allowed to refuse pat-downs by TSA officers of the same sex?
for reasons that I will not go into here, I have never felt comfortable
getting a pat-down by someone of the same sex as me. in fact, it is
extremely disturbing to me. but I have never had the courage to say
anything. Instead, I just accepted it as a necessary evil of air travel.
are there others who feel the same way?
for reasons that I will not go into here, I have never felt comfortable
getting a pat-down by someone of the same sex as me. in fact, it is
extremely disturbing to me. but I have never had the courage to say
anything. Instead, I just accepted it as a necessary evil of air travel.
are there others who feel the same way?
--PP
Mar 9, 2009, 7:15 pm
#15
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 232
What about genderqueer? Many genderqueer people do not identify as either standard gender and would consider it quote offensive and discriminatory for them to be forced to choose. And what does it mean to "present" as a particular gender? Do you go by biological appearance? Clothing style? Hairstyle? Or what?