Savvy Traveler

I struggle with this. My natural reaction most times I'm asked for ID is to bristle and ask why. How do you handle the following?

1. Credit card purchases. I usually comply, grudgingly. All they really need to do is compare the signature on the back of the card with the signature on the receipt. At least this ID check serves the purpose of preventing credit card fraud. I don't like it, but I can usually live with it.

2. Hotel check in. This one bothers me the most. I'm torn between the private property rights of the hotel owner (their property, their rules) and my own right to privacy. This ID check doesn't serve any real purpose; they're not checking me against a "do not stay" list. What I find most irritating is that this is cloaked in the blanket "security" argument.

3. Entering highrise buildings. Few things irritate me more than overpaid doormen who think they are on the front lines of crimefighting and counter-terrorism. I can't think of any reasonable need for this ID check, with the possible exception of the private property argument in #2.

Not that it will happen in the short term, but should we demand that Congress pass legislation detailing and safeguarding our right to privacy? I'm strongly in favor of private property rights, but only to the point that they don't impinge on the privacy rights of citizens.

whirledtraveler

On a building check in a mid-western city I once told the desk that I didn't have ID. Someone had to march down from the group I was visiting and tell them that they'd paid me to be there and they better let me in.

I'd taken a cab from the hotel, and as far as I know there's no law requiring ID so that they had no business assuming it. To me, that final bit is the key. If there is no law requiring people to carry ID; where do they get off assuming people will have it?

chollie

Slightly off OT, but...

I just got off the phone with Comcast. I called to make an upgrade; I've had cable at this same address/phone/etc for years. No late bills, no changes.

I give her my account number. She asks to confirm my name. OK. She asks to confirm my address. OK. Then she asks to confirm the last four digits of my SSN.

WHAT!!??

I told her she shouldn't even have that info, didn't know why she would. She said we could 'get around it' if I could confirm my work number (which has changed several times, same company). I finally remembered what it was years ago.

SSN? For cable TV?

fs2k2isfun

Yep, they probably run a credit check when you signed up for service to make sure you wouldn't run off with their equipment.

Back to the OP, a few weeks ago I was buying a $6 sandwich at my local sub shop and was asked for ID with my AMEX. After a talk with the manager, I declined, paid in cash and called AMEX to report the shop. According to both customer service and merchant services, merchants are now encouraged to ask for ID on a sale. This makes me very unhappy and much less likely to use my AMEX in the future. MC and Visa apparently still ban the ID requirement.

Any other recent experiences with AMEX and showing ID?

Trollkiller

Credit card purchase, I willingly comply because I have been on the other side of this. What most people don't understand is if the charge gets reversed due to fraud the business takes the hit. They are trying to protect themselves from the hit and as a bonus it keeps someone from using a stolen card.

I gladly show mine at a hotel check in. I have also been on the other side of this. If you get ID of at least one person staying in the room the likelihood of theft or vandalism goes down. Same with any kind of short term rental.

I am assuming entering high rises you mean ones that have many different businesses in them. I have never had that happen to me so I don't know how I would feel. If I were there to see a sex therapist I most likely would not want the front desk knowing my destination.

I have been required to show my ID to security when entering NASA, the Federal Reserve, countless banks, the Naval base, Pratt & Whitney, and countless data centers. Those did not bother me because I was entering secure (not sterile) areas. I was also free to turn and walk away at ANY point in time.

sbm12

A shop in NYC I was at the other day has a sign saying that the ask for ID on all CC transactions and that they appreciate our cooperation. When I was asked if I had a photo ID I replied "yes" and just stared at the woman. She eventually got the hint that I wasn't going to show it and processed the transaction anyways.

The sad thing about all the buildings requiring ID is that they are under the same misguided assumption that the TSA is - ID = Security. And considering that the private businesses are not running the names against any background lists it really is rather a foolish policy.

chollie

Nope. No equipment, just the actual cabling already in place when I moved in. I just transferred from the previous owner.

Trollkiller

You guys know how I am about the TSA wanting ID but I really don't see the objection to showing ID for a CC purchase. (By showing I mean just showing NOT the business logging any info.)

If someone uses your card to steal from a merchant, neither you or the credit card company is on the hook for that loss. The merchant is taking the hit.

The only recourse the merchant has is not taking the card and losing a bunch of customers or seeing the ID and losing just a few customers.

BTW the merchant agreement with Visa is you can request an ID you just can’t refuse the sale if they don’t produce one.

The way we got around it was “I refused the sale because it is my right to do so.”

timstravel

AMEX has always backed me up on this in the past. Maybe they have changed their policy recently. Discover, OTOH, will not protect the privacy of their cardholders. Hence, my Discover card now resides in a very dark corner of my dresser drawer.

If a merchant insists on ID, I just leave my purchase on the counter and walk out. I've done this a dozen times or more, sometimes leaving hundreds of $ of merchandise behind. No legislation required - if enough people care about this aspect of their privacy and make it known by taking their business elsewhere, it will stop.

FliesWay2Much

For the most part, it's pretty mindless. I wonder what would happen if I showed them an ID that said "Osama bin Laden?" 3/4 of them would say, "Hello, Mr. President."

When confronted with the ID thing in each case, here's what I generally do:

1. Decline and am prepared to walk out, which I have done. I do not buy gas at stations that require you to punch in your billing zip code for a credit card purchase.
2. Show my frequent stayer card and tell them, sorry, I don't have my DL with me because I don't have a rental car. I know some jurisdictions have passed laws where the local cops collect the check-in information every night.
3. It depends. If it's a company or a government agency, I comply, because I have usually passed some sort of clearance. If it's an apartment, I usually show an old expired DL with an old address on it. -- Hence, the mindless comment.

chollie

I agree with your other points, but I'm ok with this one.

A couple local stores ask for zipcode even for cash purchases, so I assumed it was just some kind of marketing thing. Turns out the service station machines pick up the zipcode from the mag stripe on the card. If someone gets my card but doesn't have my zipcode, the card will get rejected on a non-match. (I know it will because when it was first implemented, I managed to get my card rejected by typing in bogus zip codes).

Cha-cha-cha

What you don't seem to understand is that the business has signed a contract agreeing not to require ID to accept MC or VISA, and that as a party to that contract the cardholder has the legal and moral right to have that provision of the contract respected.

What I do, every time this happens anywhere in the world, is smile politely and ask if ID is required for them to accept the card. If they say yes, I politely cooperate and show them ID, and then file a complaint with MC or VISA the instant I get home. And I do the same if they have a minimum purchase requirement for using the card.

Superguy

1. Many clerk's can't tell a fake ID from a real one, especially an out of state one.

2. The business isn't liable if they check the signatures and comply with the merchant agreement.

3. The business gets dinged if they are reported for violating the merchant agreement by requiring ID. Thus encouraging the practice is also encouraging them to lose money in penalties for breach of contract.

4. The only time ID is required is if the card isn't signed. SEE ID is not a signature. That's because the card isn't valid without a signature. I've even seen this flyer from Visa printed at the grocery store.

5. The harassment doesn't exist if I pay with cash. The cash could be obtained fraudulently, criminally, or even counterfeit. If I pay with a debit card, I don't get carded as supposedly my PIN in mine. However, PINs are much easier to learn - you can easily pick up a PIN at any store watching the person in front of you check out. Signatures are much harder to forge.

6. People should watch their finances and report any fraudulent activity. Card agreements already don't hold the person liable for fraud. We're grown ups.

They signed the agreement. Visa and MC prohibit the practice. They can ask, but they can't refuse to process the transaction if I refuse to show my ID. If they do, they suffer sanctions.

Having been a victim of ID theft, I don't show my ID to anyone who doesn't need to see it. I pretty much only show it to my bank or a cop that asks for it. At least with TSA, the person, in theory anyway, has been vetted and is supposed to be a "good guy." God only knows who's actually checking your ID at Walmart, Pizza Hut, etc, and what they may do with it.

I actively turn in businesses that card me for credit card purchases. I often pay with my debit card if they refuse to process my card - interestingly enough it's the same card, just a different function.

Or just get a deposit either in cash or a credit card, released after no damage is there. No ID needed for this.

ID should only be asked for if verifying a certain rate, like a government rate, or where state law requires it (NV).

Certain government installations it's required, depending on the level of access. When I visit one of my customers, a USG entity, I still have to go thru visitor control as they haven't issued me a contractor badge. So I drive up, show the cop my DL (which does nothing for security) and I go in. Same at military bases I've been on. So you know my name ... so what? I still had to go thru a screening to get my badge anyway.

It always baffles me that people can rail against the government requiring ID, but when a business decided to do the same papers please mentality to buy a pizza or groceries, it suddenly becomes ok.

Superguy

MC permits this, but usually for verification for certain services, like shipping.

Cha-cha-cha

"Is this Ralph's card the only ID you have?"

(LA/Film buff joke)