TSA & Currency Control
Jan 2, 2009, 11:16 pm
#31
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It's funny to see a person who claimed $18k to the IRS the year before, and now has $42k in cash to start a dry-cleaning business with a "partner," but yet does not know the partner's name, address, or phone number and has no job. Do you think any of them get mad when the currency is seized? They expect it. They cannot show one shred of evidence of legally obtaining the money.
Same thing with cash. If I come through with $15,000 of cash, it might be for something illegal, it might not. The point is that it is not per se illegal to carry that cash. The question is why the TSA needs to refer something to LEO's when it is not per se illegal.
Jan 3, 2009, 1:38 am
#32
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. Lucie West,FL/Las Vegas,NV
Posts: 277
Here we go again with all this seizure crap. Come on people! Would anyone here let ANYONE simply take their money? I doubt it.....There is simply noway of posting my next question without there being a 1,000 additional "what ifs" that could be added to it. For the sake of this post we will assume all facts are as stated.....Anyone show me 1 case where an individual had more than $10K in cash and seemed for all practical purposes to not be of a criminal nature and had their money seized without a fight....100% of the time when I fly I have more than $10k and have never been asked anymore than what was my profession. It just doesn't make sense. With the seemingly endless cases people try and refer to one would think seizures happen all the time. It is not possible they happen even 1% of the amount that "seem" to happen. All you would here about on the news is people getting into a monster fight at the airport because some goof tried to take someone's money."King Kong himself could not make me give up my hard earned money".I can't believe I am alone in this thinking.Granted; I am not a criminal and did not obtain the funds by illegal means,but that is irrelevant.I just don't buy it.
Jan 3, 2009, 2:33 am
#33
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
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Jan 3, 2009, 5:39 am
#34
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Here we go again with all this seizure crap. Come on people! Would anyone here let ANYONE simply take their money? I doubt it.....There is simply noway of posting my next question without there being a 1,000 additional "what ifs" that could be added to it. For the sake of this post we will assume all facts are as stated.....Anyone show me 1 case where an individual had more than $10K in cash and seemed for all practical purposes to not be of a criminal nature and had their money seized without a fight....100% of the time when I fly I have more than $10k and have never been asked anymore than what was my profession. It just doesn't make sense. With the seemingly endless cases people try and refer to one would think seizures happen all the time. It is not possible they happen even 1% of the amount that "seem" to happen. All you would here about on the news is people getting into a monster fight at the airport because some goof tried to take someone's money."King Kong himself could not make me give up my hard earned money".I can't believe I am alone in this thinking.Granted; I am not a criminal and did not obtain the funds by illegal means,but that is irrelevant.I just don't buy it.
Jan 3, 2009, 8:15 am
#35
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They apparently are required to do so!
That is the problem in a nutshell.
That pretty well describes the actions of a "Police State".
Jan 3, 2009, 9:26 am
#36
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Jan 3, 2009, 9:27 am
#37
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 355
The $10k mark is misconstrued by TSA personnel. While the IRS may possibly tax amounts over $10k that leaves the US, since we have no outbound international flights where I work, the $10k mark is not significant.
It is left up to a federal judge when currency is confiscated. That is, if the person even wants to contest the seizure, which they rarely do. It's not there's to begin with. They're just the mule carrying it to buy the drugs.
Ask the DEA on the federal laws regarding money seizures. I'm sure they're out there if you do the appropriate searches. I detain the person for DEA and let them take over.
sp = reasonable "suspicion." This is how the law works nationally. With that said, I will reinforce KTW's post. Compared to the amount of people that come through the checkpoint with a significant amount of money, the numbers are small to those who have it confiscated versus those who don't. For those who have money confiscated, a simple conversation will easily tell the story. Like I said in my first post, these folks expect the money to be confiscated. And they will try again down the road if it is.
I never disagreed that TSA should pay specific attention to items that could be a threat to an aircraft, but to reverse the question, where do you think the line should be drawn? My opinion, if a TSO is doing a standard bag search and discovers contraband, whether a brick of cocaine or 1000 pictures of child pornography, I don't expect them to turn a blind eye to it (as some of you astoundingly do) and never will. If you were the parents of those children in the pictures, you may have a different viewpoint. These types of searches and discoveries have been going on since the inception of FAA rules about flying commercially. There will always be bag searches and searches of persons in order to gain entry to a commercial aircraft. If something else is discovered during this search, while not even a direct threat to the aircraft, it's going to be reported. I will never see this as any type of violation of Constitutional rights. Every person in this country knows what happens at security checkpoints at airports. Every person knows they have a right to use some other form of transportation if they want to carry something with them that is prohibited or illegal. It's a consensual search period. While some of the policies are unnecessary to say the least, I have yet to see anything that indicates "police states" are being created and checkpoints will pour out onto our streets. Outside the checkpoint, I still need reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle or terry frisk a person; and I still need probable cause to search a vehicle or person and/or make an arrest. This has not changed.
I have never been called to the checkpoint about the Sun - Sat pill cases. We have a toll-free number to call for pill identification and/or appropriate books to identify pills. If a couple of pills are rolled up in a baggie and/or artfully concealed, then yes, we are normally called. People who have legal or prescribed pills do not hide them when coming through security. It is a call by call scenario, and it is pretty obvious who carries the Sun - Sat pills and who legitimately has any type of drugs. We are rarely called on these unless it is a blatant illegal drug (i.e. marijuana, white powder).
Question and answer. Believe it or not those that seize the money give the person every opportunity to prove that it is legitimate. Problem is, they can't.
That's supposed to be left up to a judge or jury, not to you.
What documentation must I have to possess a perfectally legal item? Since when? Please quote the law?
So I have to prove that I am not guilty of a crime instead of you proving I am? You can act on some TSO dweebs call who thinks they have a big catch and you respond without reasonable suspection. Is that how the law works in your state?
But while we're on the topic of your opinion: Regardless of the current state of the law, what do you think the limits of these searches we have allowed in order to enhance transportation security should be?
I travel with some unlabeled pills in a M T W T F S S travel case. The pills could be controlled substances illegally posessed, yet there is nothing to suggest that they are. If a TSO sees these, should they notify the CP LEO? By your logic, you would deprive me of my medication because it could be illegal unless I can prove what it is.
How do you determine this? Have them search for a 1040 on the spot?
Jan 3, 2009, 10:02 am
#38
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Jan 3, 2009, 10:41 am
#39
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Therein lies the problem. You are asking TSO to make a call they simply aren't trained to make. I keep a mini-bag of pills in my vest-- they look like they could have been bought on the street. Should I be forced endure an interrogation by LE and have to disclose my private medical information to a total stranger just because a TSO thinks he made the big catch?
Jan 3, 2009, 12:19 pm
#40
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The $10k mark is misconstrued by TSA personnel. While the IRS may possibly tax amounts over $10k that leaves the US, since we have no outbound international flights where I work, the $10k mark is not significant.
It is left up to a federal judge when currency is confiscated. That is, if the person even wants to contest the seizure, which they rarely do. It's not there's to begin with. They're just the mule carrying it to buy the drugs.
Ask the DEA on the federal laws regarding money seizures. I'm sure they're out there if you do the appropriate searches. I detain the person for DEA and let them take over.
sp = reasonable "suspicion." This is how the law works nationally. With that said, I will reinforce KTW's post. Compared to the amount of people that come through the checkpoint with a significant amount of money, the numbers are small to those who have it confiscated versus those who don't. For those who have money confiscated, a simple conversation will easily tell the story. Like I said in my first post, these folks expect the money to be confiscated. And they will try again down the road if it is.
I never disagreed that TSA should pay specific attention to items that could be a threat to an aircraft, but to reverse the question, where do you think the line should be drawn? My opinion, if a TSO is doing a standard bag search and discovers contraband, whether a brick of cocaine or 1000 pictures of child pornography, I don't expect them to turn a blind eye to it (as some of you astoundingly do) and never will. If you were the parents of those children in the pictures, you may have a different viewpoint. These types of searches and discoveries have been going on since the inception of FAA rules about flying commercially. There will always be bag searches and searches of persons in order to gain entry to a commercial aircraft. If something else is discovered during this search, while not even a direct threat to the aircraft, it's going to be reported. I will never see this as any type of violation of Constitutional rights. Every person in this country knows what happens at security checkpoints at airports. Every person knows they have a right to use some other form of transportation if they want to carry something with them that is prohibited or illegal. It's a consensual search period. While some of the policies are unnecessary to say the least, I have yet to see anything that indicates "police states" are being created and checkpoints will pour out onto our streets. Outside the checkpoint, I still need reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle or terry frisk a person; and I still need probable cause to search a vehicle or person and/or make an arrest. This has not changed.
I have never been called to the checkpoint about the Sun - Sat pill cases. We have a toll-free number to call for pill identification and/or appropriate books to identify pills. If a couple of pills are rolled up in a baggie and/or artfully concealed, then yes, we are normally called. People who have legal or prescribed pills do not hide them when coming through security. It is a call by call scenario, and it is pretty obvious who carries the Sun - Sat pills and who legitimately has any type of drugs. We are rarely called on these unless it is a blatant illegal drug (i.e. marijuana, white powder).
Question and answer. Believe it or not those that seize the money give the person every opportunity to prove that it is legitimate. Problem is, they can't.
It is left up to a federal judge when currency is confiscated. That is, if the person even wants to contest the seizure, which they rarely do. It's not there's to begin with. They're just the mule carrying it to buy the drugs.
Ask the DEA on the federal laws regarding money seizures. I'm sure they're out there if you do the appropriate searches. I detain the person for DEA and let them take over.
sp = reasonable "suspicion." This is how the law works nationally. With that said, I will reinforce KTW's post. Compared to the amount of people that come through the checkpoint with a significant amount of money, the numbers are small to those who have it confiscated versus those who don't. For those who have money confiscated, a simple conversation will easily tell the story. Like I said in my first post, these folks expect the money to be confiscated. And they will try again down the road if it is.
I never disagreed that TSA should pay specific attention to items that could be a threat to an aircraft, but to reverse the question, where do you think the line should be drawn? My opinion, if a TSO is doing a standard bag search and discovers contraband, whether a brick of cocaine or 1000 pictures of child pornography, I don't expect them to turn a blind eye to it (as some of you astoundingly do) and never will. If you were the parents of those children in the pictures, you may have a different viewpoint. These types of searches and discoveries have been going on since the inception of FAA rules about flying commercially. There will always be bag searches and searches of persons in order to gain entry to a commercial aircraft. If something else is discovered during this search, while not even a direct threat to the aircraft, it's going to be reported. I will never see this as any type of violation of Constitutional rights. Every person in this country knows what happens at security checkpoints at airports. Every person knows they have a right to use some other form of transportation if they want to carry something with them that is prohibited or illegal. It's a consensual search period. While some of the policies are unnecessary to say the least, I have yet to see anything that indicates "police states" are being created and checkpoints will pour out onto our streets. Outside the checkpoint, I still need reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle or terry frisk a person; and I still need probable cause to search a vehicle or person and/or make an arrest. This has not changed.
I have never been called to the checkpoint about the Sun - Sat pill cases. We have a toll-free number to call for pill identification and/or appropriate books to identify pills. If a couple of pills are rolled up in a baggie and/or artfully concealed, then yes, we are normally called. People who have legal or prescribed pills do not hide them when coming through security. It is a call by call scenario, and it is pretty obvious who carries the Sun - Sat pills and who legitimately has any type of drugs. We are rarely called on these unless it is a blatant illegal drug (i.e. marijuana, white powder).
Question and answer. Believe it or not those that seize the money give the person every opportunity to prove that it is legitimate. Problem is, they can't.
Being yanked out of a line and questioned by anyone, TSA or LEO, because I just happen to have some amount of cash is the makings of a "Police State".
Remember it is a TSA document that has determined that $10K is contraband. Not any other agency, just TSA.
So next week TSA in all it's great wisdom decides anyone who reads "Readers Digest" is a subversive.
I guess you'll be in there carrying water for the TSA since they must know what is going on.
Jan 3, 2009, 12:31 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
Corrected: Well, that and illegally requiring that you show government issued Photo-ID to a government "officer" or agent in order to be permitted to travel domestically.
Jan 3, 2009, 1:08 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 355
Being yanked out of a line and questioned by anyone, TSA or LEO, because I just happen to have some amount of cash is the makings of a "Police State".
Remember it is a TSA document that has determined that $10K is contraband. Not any other agency, just TSA.
So next week TSA in all it's great wisdom decides anyone who reads "Readers Digest" is a subversive.
I guess you'll be in there carrying water for the TSA since they must know what is going on.
Remember it is a TSA document that has determined that $10K is contraband. Not any other agency, just TSA.
So next week TSA in all it's great wisdom decides anyone who reads "Readers Digest" is a subversive.
I guess you'll be in there carrying water for the TSA since they must know what is going on.
As far as a TSA document. Like I said before, it's a TSA document just because it's TSA's responsibility now. Before it was a FAA document. I haven't seen anyone bashing them for it decades before TSA came along.
Jan 3, 2009, 1:11 pm
#44
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 355
Therein lies the problem. You are asking TSO to make a call they simply aren't trained to make. I keep a mini-bag of pills in my vest-- they look like they could have been bought on the street. Should I be forced endure an interrogation by LE and have to disclose my private medical information to a total stranger just because a TSO thinks he made the big catch?
Jan 3, 2009, 1:37 pm
#45
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,082
Being pulled aside from the screening process for the simple fact of having some money does not occur on every single person. Of those that are pulled aside, questions are asked by law enforcement and a judgment call is made very quickly.
As far as a TSA document. Like I said before, it's a TSA document just because it's TSA's responsibility now. Before it was a FAA document. I haven't seen anyone bashing them for it decades before TSA came along.
As far as a TSA document. Like I said before, it's a TSA document just because it's TSA's responsibility now. Before it was a FAA document. I haven't seen anyone bashing them for it decades before TSA came along.