Are We Anymore Secure Than Before?
 

Excerpts from an article "Is Airport Security Useless?"

"Complaints about the state of airport security seems to have become a permanent part of the travel experience no matter what the purpose of your journey, however it appears to have been reaching a fever pitch in recent months. Just take Jeffrey Goldberg's article from the November 2008 issue of The Atlantic as an example. Entitled "The Things He Carried," Goldberg detailed his successful attempts at getting contraband utensils such as pocketknives, matches, rope, cigarette lighters, box cutters and other questionable propaganda through airport security. At times he was even able to make it through with a counterfeit boarding pass.

Which begs the question: if a well-intentioned journalist is able to make it through security with troublesome implements, who else is getting through with things they shouldn't... and are we really that safe? It all depends on who you ask.

"The system we have now, which basically presumes everyone is a terrorist, is'’t very efficient," says Gerald Sterns, a West coast-based passenger's rights attorney. "The real way to make us safe and secure is to profile, which -- of course -- is a dirty word in this country, and has caused a lot of problems. Most of us need to take a lesson from the Israelis, whose security is based solely on profiling -- looking at ethnic and religious types, physical movements, base actions... ethnic extraction doesn’t bother them a bit. But here, it’s considered politically incorrect. We need to change our perspective, because 99.9% of travelers are businessmen or families who aren’t security risks, not terrorists or criminals.”
http://information.travel.aol.com/ar...726x1200846018

There's this enormous infoposter from the Department of Justice in our training area all about how profiling is prohibited on so many levels. I don't think it's just politically incorrect.

The real way to make us safe and secure is to ensure nobody gets on a plane with credible weapons or explosive devices. That's what the TSA is supposed to be doing, instead of all their mission creep, ID fixation and other make-work activities.

We are safer than before (9/11 I assume) because:
a) flight decks are less accessible to passengers (again supposedly); and
b) crews and passengers have learned (hopefully) that co-operating with terrorists does no good at all so you may as well resist/atttack.

In other words, the places in which we are safer today have ZERO presence of TSA.

In a word ...... Exactly!!

Are we safer? Not particularly. And if we are, I believe it is spite of TSA and DHS, not because they exist.

i agree completely but remember, it's the kettles that always get interviewed ;)

I'm in favor of air travel security, but NOT stupidity.

Come on, TSA:

- NO shoe carnival (except shoes that are known to alarm the WTMD)
- NO laptop carnival
- NO Kippie baggie carnival (although many stations don't seem to be enforcing anymore

- PROPERLY ENFORCED F/ELITE LINES AT ALL MAJOR AIRPORTS (I realize it's the private security folks' jobs to enforce these lines, but TSA could help by making sure that "black diamond" doesn't replace F/Elite lines)

Then I will be happy.

Absolutely, 100% safer than before. BECAUSE of TSA's treatment of me, I don't FLY any more. Mission accomplished, Homeland Jerks!

Thats sad. You let them intimidate you.

That's not begging the question; that's merely "bringing up" or "raising the question". Begging the question is:

1. p implies q.
2. Suppose p. Therefore,
3. q.

Begging the question, in this situation, could be:

1. Airports and aircraft are not secure if the TSA does not catch all rope.
2. The TSA did not catch this guy's rope.
3. OMG!!! Airports and aircraft are not secure.

You can put me on that list also. I only fly if there's no other option. I just got tired of standing there with an airline id & being treated like a common criminal.

I agree securing the cockpit door (plus the new cabin cameras so the flight crew can see in the cabin) along with passenger awareness means its unlikely there will ever be another in flight incident like 911. No crew would ever open the door and no future passengers would sit back and do nothing.

Targeting a shopping mall or high speed train would be a lot easier and just as effective. Its an oxymoron at Heathrow where shoes are removed for x-ray except when its busy (generally every two minutes or so) and the staff allow it to be bypassed. In fact in terminal three the far left immigration lane lane usually walks by most of the time as any frequent traveller (or terrorist) would know.

If you take the time to read about how to make a liquid explosive (widely available on the web) its completely implausible that could ever be a serious threat.

The best weapon if you are so minded is already allowed on board being duty free liquor. The obvious risk is having several hundred liters of flammable substance rolling around overhead lockers unsecured in glass bottles and the chance of bottles falling on passengers heads (I have seen this).

However they also make great clubs as demonstrated by the hijacking some years ago of an Air NZ B747 in Fiji whilst on the ground where the hijacker was clubbed and knocked out by the flight engineer with a bottle of duty free.

Breaking it on a galley/toilet edge would make a handy knife and it would be easy to make into a molotov cocktail. I guess airlines and airports make too much money from duty free sales to do anything about it so thats why they like to pick on grandmothers with nail clippers! Heaven forbid a rampaging 80 year old grannie on the loose with nail clippers.

The sad part is the guy is sitting in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan is no doubt laughing at the chaos we have allowed to be inflicted on ourselves and knowing we have inflicted on ourselves much more chaos and disruption than he could ever have.

Kiwi_FF:

Maybe I didn't notice close enough, but all the flights I've flew on lately hasn't had any cameras in the cabin? Has anyone noticed this?

Or he's simply unwilling to deal with TSA's BS so he travels by other means. I think it's the latter.

:D I was thinking along the same lines... the TSA can't even successfully carry out the basics of their job, so they've created a thousand other ways to try and divert our attention.

As for the OP, profiling based on religion etc. is the dumbest thing you could possibly do. What terrorist, knowing the new system (or even today for that matter) is going to come to an American airport dressed as in robes and tell airline and security personnel that he's a devout muslim? It's only an invitation for exactly the kind of racist attention that's advocated in that article.

Read it however you prefer, TSA Dude. I just don't bend over any more.

You?

Racist profiling is not necessary and neither is the TSA. Destroy them both!

Not thanks to the TSA. And I actually told them that once.....

Rather than assigning SSSS and performing secondary screening on American 80 year old grandmothers who do not alarm the WTMD or otherwise seem out of the ordinary, devote extra screening to males under the age of 50 who are from the Middle East or who have traveled to/from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. This sort of extra screening is not profiling based on religion, but rather the most prudent use of screening resources.

Um.....I don't understand this point at all. How is it not profiling to devote extra time to males under 50 who are "from the Middle East?" That, my friend, is profiling based on national/regional origin. I'm always ashamed of my country when I am sitting in my seat and a guy of Middle Eastern descent walks by, his boarding pass scrawled with "SSSS" in huge letters. This poor guy was targeted because of how the id checker perceived his origin. (It's almost as bad as profiling based on religion, but actually, religious profiling isn't supposed to happen because your religion doesn't appear in/on your travel documents, and it is highly illegal for any officers--TSA or otherwise--to ask you about your religion.)


The other thing you mention, screening based on travel patterns (lots of entry stamps to Afghanistan, etc.) is NOT improper profiling. In fact, I think is a legitimate, non-discriminatory way of deciding who needs additional screening.

Given your username, I assume you'd advise death for those men and children. :rolleyes:

If the primary screening was effective and done properly, nobody would need a secondary unless there is an unresolved WTMD alarm or x-ray item. Nobody needs to be profiled, just thoroughly screened. Of course, that means the No-Fly List would be useless. Oh wait, it already is.

If passenger is not in possession of a credible weapon or a viable explosive, it doesn't matter security-wise who he or she is, where they have been or where they are going; or why.

Valid ID - not important. Criminal - not important. Carrying $$$$ - not important. Drugs - not important (although I'll cede calling a LEO in that case).

There is a lot of merit in the idea of layered security. The thing is that those layers have to be credible, which SSSS is not. If SSSS were implemented on its own it'd be like filtering tap water by removing and distilling one teaspoon from each gallon of dirty water and then mixing it back in. The water is still just as dangerous.

Unarmed people can still be a danger in the airport, on the street, or at home. If someone is too dangerous to be allowed to fly, they're too dangerous to take the bus; they should be dealt with regardless. If there is a vulnerability in the "sterile" area, fix it. If there is to be a 'no-fly list', it should not have any US residents on it; the only people on such a list should be people outside the US who present a clear and present danger to the US. The only US citizens on the list are fugitives from justice in countries that don't cooperate (deport, etc.). Even those people should generally be allowed in so that we can prosecute them.

You can't keep dangerous people out of public facilities and off of common carriers. End of story.

IMHO, fugitives from justice include the ones in the white unies who batter our constitution in control of the CP lines at the airports every day.