krobbins

This issue isn't going away, much to the chagrin of all of us. I wish I thought that there was a way out of it, but many Americans are drinking the kool aid on the security issue and just go along. I don't see much chance of change in the right direction when the vast majority of people don't know, understand or care.

It affects frequent travelers in a way that "ordinary" people don't fully appreciate. They're not interested in civil liberties, they just want to get to grandma's as cheaply and quickly as possible. Don't get me wrong, I want to get there fast and cheap too, but there has to be a place where we draw the line.

OT now... Mikeef -

Is it too late for the cookie?

"You can't take three from two, two is less than three so you look to the two in the tens place. Now that's really four tens so you make it three tens, regroup and you change the ten to ten ones...

Only a child can do it "

I can do that whole albumm 30 years later. Hysterical - but I'm dating myself. Actually my parents listed to it in the 70s over and over again. Funny how I can remember all the words to those songs but can't remember where I put my glasses...

jonesing

Sounds like a Gattaca world with the "Valids" and "In-valids". Just skip the subdermal implanted chips (VeriChip) and go with fingertip prickers for DNA scanning of the blood drops. Of course the chips would be more useful if they had RFID capability. Why bother with just chipping the passport/ID when you can also chip the person? Now THAT would be useful...RFID chip in Taylor Smith is always present with the RFID DL in the name of Tyler Smith...well *obviously* something fishy there!


Yeah, what about folks like Capt. B. J. Hunnicutt from M*A*S*H? Actually, his name is B J not B. J. since the "." implies an initial that stands for a "longer" name. He (and folks like him) could have tix in the name B J, BJ, B.J., B. J. or even just B which is the style that all my air tix are booked. Both my kids have two middle names, the only agency thus far able to accomodate the names is State Dept (passports).

So am I to understand the address requirement has been dropped? Because that could open a whole new can of worms...which address? My house? (not listed on any records except the utilities that serve the house) My personal PO box? Spouse's business PO box? HQ (main facility or any one of 15 PO boxes)? I think our internal travel system uses one of the HQ PO boxes as a default address for everyone. That could be interesting if questioned about why the address on my PNR in no way relates to my DL address. But then the passport card has no address so I guess it wouldn't matter anyway.

MrAndy1369

A slightly different twist on this, with a few questions:

A) What do you think the average Joe's reaction will be when they see they need to enter their DOB and gender on the reservation page?

B) How would group reservations work out? wouldn't it be a PITA to enter the gender/DOB for each group? Such as a group of students? (Think 8th graders visiting DC)

C) How would this affect gate passes?

doober

As to A above, the average Joe has, most unfortunately, bought into the "anything for security" crap and won't even question it.

As to B above, tour groups will follow along willingly for fear that if they don't they will be harassed by the government; school groups will also follow along willingly.

If I were the parent of a young child today, I personally would not be happy with DHS having this knowledge about my child; however, I imagine I'd be told that my kid could not go on the trip if I objected to handing this info over to the government.

doober

I started saying this same thing a year ago: get as many onerous procedures in as possible during the current administration as the next one may not see things our way.

Global_Hi_Flyer

Just remember that many Dems supported the TSA, too.

Here's a more scary thought: the TSA was created to "restore faith" in our transportation and security system. That's the same logic being used in the financial bailout......

oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate

But, it's the Mark of the BEEST!

Superguy

Maybe not the implanted chip, but I'm sure you could find a religious person to argue that RealID is such a "mark." Comrade Chertoff can't seem to resist the urge to tie every aspect of our life to it.

I'm not saying it is, but it's a passing thought that ran thru my mind.

Axey

Update: SecureFlight has been finalized and will begin implementation in the next 30 days.

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/secure...final_rule.pdf

Some especially alarming points:

• Full name (including middle name if shown on ID) required
• DHS/TSA decides whether your BP prints. Not the people you give your money to.
• If your flight is considered a "risk" or a "target", the DHS may run your information through any LEO databases they desire.

Another outrageous intrusion.

Even better, phase 2 of this program will apply to flights merely overflying continental US airspace. So for you YYZ-EZE flyers (etc), hope you don't mind, but you'll be in Kip's little database too.

Superguy

A big to this. .

Sad thing is, a lot of sheeple will think this a good thing that should happen in a free land like the US. They'll fail to see that it's just a smoke screen for asking the government for permission to travel just like in totalitarian states ... the same places they despise.

Super

GUWonder

There is more freedom to travel in former Taliban country than there is in the US.

.... so we export freedom and democracy so much that we have more and more trouble finding it at home.

bocastephen

This was most certainly rammed through by the current administration, without Congressional oversight of the details, and timed to prevent the new Congress from squashing it.

In the near year, the group I'm trying to put together will be synced with some other anti-secureflight organizations out there to try and appeal to Congress to take action when the new session convenes. There are many Congressional reps who are definitely anti-SF, but I'm not sure what they can do at this point, given the blank check Congress inexplicably wrote for the TSA.

My understanding is the data you provide will be run against a list, not necessarily built into a database for retention and analysis, but I could be wrong. The additional datapoints are to permit more granular comparisons against the watch list, but as we know, the watch list doesn't include the names of terrorists, so go figure.

You can experiment when reserving online by altering certain aspects of your persona, such as birth year, date, or day, or even gender. We can compile our own FT database reported right here to determine under what circumstances someone loses online check-in, or gets a secondary, or is hassled when they show their 'VID' after providing false data to the airline.

Please pay close attention to the 72hr rule - this will impact everyone here. If you make a reservation within 72hrs, or are transferred to another airline inside 72hrs of departure (think irregular ops rebooking), expect a very strong likelihood (like 99%), you will not be able to check-in online, and you WILL receive a secondary screening at the airport. Given the sheer number of last minute business bookings, expect to see many of your full fare brethren doing the 'arms out' at the airport checkpoint. It is the impact on business travel which we will try and tap into as well, as the various traveler organizations are going to be up in arms once they release the impact of this rule.

cs19

Also

I also see for Full name, DOB, and Gender: "Passengers and certain non-travelers must provide at time of reservation"

The document goes on and on. Lots of comments expressing concern about things, which the TSA responds with a non-response or a "that doesn't apply to us" response (such as for privacy and data-retention issues)

Finally: Effective December 29, 2008.

OrlandoFlyer

Hopefully, this 72 hour rule will affect the Congress Critters and Senators when travel on commercial airlines, as I would imagine that quite often they book reservations in less than 72 hours. If they get hassled enough by these rules then maybe they will do something about them.

I guess these new rules are the parting gift to us all from Comrade Chertoff and Kippie. May they suffer them as well when they become normal citizens again after January 20, 2009.

Spiff

May those scumbags suffer much worse fates than just that.