This is NOT a communist country. ...? Why bother having gate rescreening AFTER going thru security area before the gate?!? What's wrong with Bush Administration?!? :td::td::td:

I wouldn't worry too much about it. The ASASP teams have been operating for awhile now. They have other duties that take up a lot of their time. I don't think that there will be a full return of gate screening, but then again I could be wrong....

This government workfare program needs to be cut down to size so they don't have the staffing levels to engage in this nonsense.

We don't have the staffing levels to engage in this "nonsense". When they pull TSO's off the checkpoints to do their shift on ADASP, it sucks.

(Non-sarcastic to you, Cee) Yeah, I'm sure when you or your people get assigned to gate haraSSSSment, the thought is, "Well sh*t, as if I don't have to take enough hate and abuse from customers at the checkpoint, now I've gotta go take it even WORSE at the gate!" I don't envy y'all on this one (because trust me, as much disdain as we have for the pointless job you do in general, when it comes to the gate haraSSSSment thing, it doesn't get much worse!).

Wasn't aware that staffing levels are adequate even to manage the new self selection procedures, such as at OAK. Just a few weeks ago, while going through screening at IAD, we ran out of bins in the queue. So the Xray reader got up from her chair, and collected an armful and restocked them herself. And she slammed them down on the table rather angrily, and muttered something about there "not even being enough staff around to cause a clusterf:eek:ck!"

Agree with goalie, just some birds and turds somewhere up the food chain trying to CYA and keep their jobs next year

Do they have TSA complain forms at the gate??:confused:

Hehe. Gaming the system by artfully concealing your real desire to be first down the jetway (on WN, for instance) could result in a suspicious increase in false politeness. "You first please." "No, I insist." "After YOU!", "NO, after YOU, M-F!"

First person down the jetway is a "hat on a stick"?

"Do you want to make your flight or not? You're going to have to wait if you want one."

Pretty much. The ASASP is a duty that TSO's volunteer to do... (thankfully) I am not a part of it.

Any lawyers reading?
 

I have a question:
What is their legal justification for forcing random searches like this?

You've already cleared entrance into the "sterile" area so apart from an LEO requirement (Terry or Hibel stop) that escalates into a detainment and search, how is the TSA even grounding this in the law*?

Earlier in the "TSA existence" (2001/2002) there were gate screenings but I thought that was due to those airports not yet having ramped up on TSA staff to do proper checkpoint screening - aka, private companies were still doing it.

Anyway - if someone who's reading this can supply some form of legal gymnastics to prove why they're allowed to force you to comply with ANOTHER administrative search it would be appreciated.

If it wasn't for the fact that I'm flying to Vancouver ("international" destination) and on a late night flight I'd be hard pressed to allow TSA to rummage through my crap AGAIN w/o having an LEO called because I was 'uncooperative'.

* Laws? We don't need no stinkin' laws! (Blazing Saddles reference if you're confused)

Oh, but their new blue shirts and shiny shields will make it all better :rolleyes:

This is just exacerbating a horrible travel experience, causing more stress on an industry that can't handle it and reducing ANYONE's desire to leave their home. So glad we're part of a global economy.

Fixed it for you.

Henry

Maybe US Airways has signed a revenue sharing agreement with the TSA to give 20% of revenues from onboard water sales if the TSA will take all the post terminal checkpoint water purchases..... :td:

I was thinking about the "big picture" of Air Travel 2008; it looks like this (and I'm sure I've left out a few steps):

- GOOD: Print boarding pass at home before arrival at airport
- BAD: Above point moot if necessary to check a bag - have to wait in airline counter queue to engage understaffed (and possibly contracted out) airline personnel, and depending on airline and amount/size of bags, pay fee to check 'em
- BAD: Proceed to security checkpoint, to be subjected to ever-longer and more delayed queues, inane ID checking procedure, delays getting through to the WTMD due to clueless Kettles, bag sizer templates, barking TSOs, etc etc etc, show boarding pass yet again because the first check was inadequate, be subjected to possible secondary haraSSSSment, and finally get through
- BAD: Be forced to camp out in front of the gate prior to boarding because that's the only way to win The War for Overhead Storage (TM)
- BAD: Possibly have a surly GA (even more surly with his/her new responsibility of being "carry on cop") enforce new carry-on restrictions, and possibly charge you to check a bag if you are not in compliance
- BAD: Possible gate haraSSSSment by TSA, resulting in possible loss of overhead storage space due to the boarding delay (despite the above strategic positioning at the gate prior to boarding)
- BAD: Face a possibly surly FA who is hating his/her job even more because in addition to the ongoing job uncertainty and labor concessions, he/she now has to deal with his/her "carry on cop" responsibilities even more, possibly having to break the bad news to later boarding passengers that they'll have to go out and check their bags and pay a fee to do so
- BAD: Settle into a cramped and dirty seat and cabin (even more cramped if flying a POS CRJ200), tolerate infringement into personal space of often-inconsiderate fellow passengers, with few or no in-flight amenities, and try to get through the flight without suffering bodily injury due to the lack of space
- GOOD: If far enough, arrive at destination sooner than one would have compared to driving

That's an awful lot of "BAD" for those few "GOODs", ya think?

Various news stories have said that TSA finds about 30% of objects when a Test Team checks an airport. Which means 70% get through. If the gate screen has the same "success" rate, then overall in two checks TSA finds 51 out of 100 items, and 49 out of the 100 items make it on the plane.

Since they find half the contraband, Blogger Bob can brag about "we make you twice as safe by existing" and Kip and his lackeys can give themselves a big bonus for doing such a great job. :td:

This past January, I was suprised to get a screening in the jetway JFK-IAD.

I was the 2nd (3rd) person to board and the only one with red carpet status. I would have been first but I insisted that this couple with a wheelchair go ahead even though they said that I could go. So I was the first able bodied person to board. I was suprised and somewhat embarrassed standing with my legs spread and arms out while the rest of the flight proceeded to board.

The find rate is only that high if the gate screening covers 100% of the passengers. If it only covers 10% of the pax, then the success rate for contraband goes down only from 70% to 68%.

TSA must be counting ENTIRELY on the deterrent effect.

On a related note, gate checkers don't take away sterile-side purchased water, do they? That would be pure evil.

I was on an UA flight the other day. I saw some TSA folks milling around the gate and "gallantly" allowed couple of women to board before me. Unfortunately the TSA were no where to be found and no one got caught. But the system can be gamed pretty well.

Tel Aviv, supposedly the world's most security-conscious airport, has no gate screening.

And I specifically recall the TSA discussing how they "wanted to get it right the first time" instead of having gate screening.

It just makes them look so incompetent and inefficient. And the handful of times I've been "chosen" at the gate, I've been embarrassed, humiliated, and--of course--deprived of bin space.

I feel like the TSA is working harder and harder every day to make themselves look bad.

The line comes from the 1935 novel The Treasure of the Sierra Madre but was popularized in the 1948 movie of the same name starring Humphrey Bogart.

http://pl251.pairlitesite.com/badges/index.shtml

Can we create a list of airports and concourses where these gate screens are occurring right now?

Gate screened two years ago at BWI and the post-security water bottle was indeed taken from me.

Waiting to hear if that is still in effect.

If they take my 2-3 liters of water I purchase after passing thru security each trip, I will be calling a LEO to the scene. That is theft and nothing but!!

I completely forgot about that. Man, I'd be ripped if I got pulled aside after paying extra. I hope Southwest bills the TSA for all of the refunds that they have to issue.

The policy I always used at the gate was not to look at them. If you make eye contact, they've got you.

Mike

Either don't look at them or make sure its obvious how much "stuff" you have with them ... they were extremely lazy and often picked the folks with the least amount of carry-on

in feb. or march I was gate screened at ORD at or near B5 on a TED flt. to PHX. I always buy a bottle of soda when I fly TED and it was clearly visible on the outside of my carryon. nothing was said about it.

I was more than p----d off about the stupidity of this experience!

Not where I work! Fortunately, they rotate the assignment ... I've only had to do it once, thank Goddess!

The first person I picked to pick on had been stuck at the airport since the previous day (flight cancelled due to bad weather). She was surprisingly upbeat about being picked for additional screening ... I think she was glad to have someone to rant to!

My second victim was part of a family taking their kid on a Make-A-Wish Foundation vacation ... oy! :(

Actually, yes it is. And I'm being serious. Obviously you can't grow something but there is a security hole that, with a little planning and time, would grant you very easy access to just about anything that is carry-on size. The average person wouldn't use it; however, the type of person that the TSA claims it is trying to stop would certainly use it. And I'm not telling them something that they don't already know.

This is not to say that I support gate screening or TSA in general. I'm just pointing out that yes, you can go through security without a prohibited item and still board a plane with a prohibited item. Not including liquids purchased airside. Although that should give you a clue what i'm talking about.

Sure, absolutely. I knows PHX does not have the secondary screening at all. Because TSA wasn't there at the gate areas but, they are working at the checkpoint instead of secondary screening. I wasn't feels confidence from TSA. I went down into the concourse to look it around. I was on breaks from work but, I usually down into the sterile area. I wasn't concerns from TSA is not eventually put to secondary screening at the gates.

Customers must to show the obtain boarding pass & ID, too. Before passengers is allows onboard the aircraft. If someone who gotten misidentification match but, agents will let's someone need go to secondary screening. They will wanding you & search the carryon bags, too.

they got the propoganda for gate screening on the site, we're all for it!
 

Well per the website, and their interview with passengers, its OK "Anything that makes us safer, I'm all for it"

http://mfile.akamai.com/25703/wmv/ts...g_at_gates.asx

So you're saying these "random" checks are actually "We don't like the way that guy looks" checks? Real random checks should be "We will check 30% of people. As the person comes through, the PDA I have will spit out a YES or NO based on a random number."

typical dog and horses' a$$ show

methinks they picked the wrong pax to interview. f/'ters would be much better than kettles, n'est pas? ;)

For pretty much all definitions of "better." :)

Why not deputize one FA on every flight to randomly search pax after they've boarded? @:-)

While providing much-needed extra income to the designated FA (a useful federal subsidy of sorts to the airlines), it would be much more efficient than the pre-boarding search, i.e. "Let me help you get that bag into the overhead, Sir, once I've finished rummaging through it."

Many domestic FAs are already well qualified to identify suspicious behavior, such as pax in F who ask for pre-departure beverages or who want their coats hung up, or especially UA flyers who ask if Ch 9 will be on.

:D

<raising hand> and especially if she's cute and has a ponytail (ok, it's like 90 degrees in sf today so the penalty box looks like a good place to cool down ;))

Anyone who works for this organization is a traitor. I decided.

not happy
 

This news does not make me happy. I nearly always got picked for the "random" check when it was in place.

I did develop a few [succesful] workarounds which I will share with you...
1) Waiting for both TSOs to be busy with other passengers before walking past them
a) After scanning one's BP, stand to the side and pretend to put your BP and wallet away, adjust bags, etc, until both TSO's are busy with other passengers (100% success).
This should work well with UA's Red carpet, CO's blue carpet and whatever colour AA's carpet is.

2) If the TSO's were not busy, I would hold my leg as if I was wounded or walk past them limping and obviously in pain. - THough I was not expecting it, since I saw them pull over a blind South Asian teenager once, I did have a 100% success rate using this strategy too.

3) Walk past them with my mobile to my ear, pretending I am listening intently (50% success - which might mean "no success" since it's supposed to be random).

4) Walk past them and when they call out "Sir", keep walking. My problem is that if someone is polite to me, I cannot be rude to them so this didn't work too well on account of me always walking over to them. Now, had they called me over rudely, there would have been some $h1t going down. (I suppose that was not at all succesful).

Has anyone actually been pulled over for secondary screening recently? Does TSA enforce its liquid policy when they do gate screening? After the initial screening, a lot of us take the liquids out of our freedom bags and put them back in our purses or backpacks. Would TSA confiscate our liquids at the gate if they were not in a freedom bag, especially if it were a surprise secondary? What about the liquids and drinks that were bought beyond the initial TSA screening point?

That's a good question, Sahara! I can only tell you what I did, which was to assume that any oversized drinks, etc., in the passenger's possession were purchased airside.

I'm not sure what the official policy is -- I completed an online instruction module on gate screening about 6 months ago, but wasn't actually tapped to do it until recently, whereupon I couldn't remember the protocol. I informed my supervisor, and he told me that my partner understood it, which (as it turned out) was not the case. He was clueless, too! So (as so many here accuse the TSA of doing), we simply made it up as we went along! :(