LLM

mikeef, I don't know why you might think this kind of lengthy interogation of obvious non-threats is acceptable. You may have found it brief, but we, WASP Presbyterians, were asked only a handful of questions (to which my husband to my astonishment replied untruthfully as he would rather die than park in a no-parking zone and who cares if they know he speaks Spanish), strolled into the terminal, picked up our BP's and were through the entire process in less than 15 minutes.

But because your wife speaks Hebrew, a difficult accomplishment for which she should be commended, she gets "the treatment"? Since then I have learned to "read" Hebrew and Arabic so I should plan on several hours of bullying even though I am the exact same harmless person? To my mind, it's an utter fantasy that these interrogations serve any security function. After all, they nabbed, incarcerated and deported the harmless academic Norman Finkelstein just last week. We are supposed to be impressed with this fine security?

craz

Do yourself and everyone else a favor then do not go to Israel or thru Israel.

I didnt like the way I was questioned at AMS and since then have avoided going there or thru there. You should do the same and put TLV on your do not go list. Its very simple, if you dont like how they do things dont go.

I dont understnad why people are so against the likes of a Bill O'Reily or Rush , they are simply innocent and harmless talk show hosts.

LLM

Are you functioning as mikeef's secretary? This is about his experience and I had a question for him. Your post doesn't even address it - just how does interrogating Hebrew speakers protect a plane from being blown up?

And how did talk show hosts get in here? I nominate this post for non sequitur of the year.

craz

1 you took it OT with mentioning N Finkelstein

2 there are over a million Israelis who speak Hebrew and arent Jewish, so simply being able to speak Hebrew is nothing. Didnt Israel today deport to Lebanon an Israeli-Lebananese spy who spoke and knows Hebrew very well,as does any number of PA Officals. Dont forget a few hundred thousand non-Jewish Russians, a number whom are Neo-Nazis and speak Hebrew having been raised in Israel

when you stop acting like the drunken sailors from both sides of the aisle in Wash,DC who always find a way to insert their Pork projects into any pending bill, in your case finding a way to rant about N Finkelstein or anything that goes against ultra liberals which have nothing to do with the topic at hand. You should expect replies.

You basically said you didnt care for the way the Israelis do things. Thats fine, no different then how I dont dont care for the way The Dutch do things. Thusly I stay away from AMS, and thusly my suggestion that you stay away from TLV. Alot of us dont care for how the TSA does things but if we want to fly within or out of the US we have to put up with it. I dont have to fly to or thru AMS and you dont have to fly to or thru TLV

cestmoi123

1. While there's of course the danger of the "magic rock" problem (my magic rock is designed to keep away bears, and it works, I've never been mauled by a bear), it does seem to me that, given the well-expressed and coordinated hostility Israel faces, the fact that a hijacker has never gotten through TLV gives some indication that the interrogations do work. Again, we can never prove a negative, but there's certainly an implication there.

2. Finkelstein wasn't viewed as a threat to the aircraft, but rather denied entry into Israel (he was put on a flight back to Amsterdam), at least in part because of his recent contacts with Hezbollah officials. That being said, do I think they should have let him in? Yes. Again, though, this isn't a case of Israeli aviation security, but rather their equivalent of Border Patrol making an admit/don't admit decision.

Wiirachay

I've heard that 75% of the security at TLV is done even before you enter the airport, using Interpol database checks, etc.. All the questions are meant to trip you up or allow the security to see your body language reacting to the questions.

However, they outright profile/classify by race: those with Hebrew last names, those with Arab last names, and those that they can't determine.

I heard guns are confiscated at TLV regularly. However, there no fines levied.

sailman

Having flown in and out of TLV several times, the basic distinction I would make between thier security and the actions of the TSA is I felt I was treated with dignity throughout the process in TLV, regardless of the length of time, or level of screening that was performed. And I have never "misplaced" an item from my carryon or checked baggage on any departing flights that I took.

Just treat the customer with some diginity and you can accomplish alot with little indignation.

Stay the curse!

mikeef

We pretty much knew going in what the security issues were going to be, so nothing was really a surprise to us. In fact, the only surprise was that it took a lot less time than I thought it would.

Personally, we knew that we were obvious non-threats. The Israelis don't. Unfortunately, overall threats to Israel are very real, and the whole experience was handled very professionally. I actually enjoyed it, chalking it up to cultural learning.

I'm not exactly sure why they focused on my wife. Hebrew is actually her first language. She grew up in Philadelphia, but her parents (who are also native born Americans) spoke only Hebrew to her at home. She learned English by going to nursery school.

One thing that we thought about was that they may have been trying to determine if she was actually Israeli and had tried to evade army duty. We couldn't think of any other reason that they would have "singled her out." The whole interview process was very conversational. It did not feel in the slightest bit accusatory.

One issue with having a wife who speaks Hebrew: Our Ketubah (the Jewish marriage contract) is written in Aramaic, which is similar enough to Hebrew that my wife can read and understand it. I, alas, cannot. So every so often, she'll point out the spot where she claims that it says I have to buy her new clothes and jewelry on demand, take her for sushi once per week, etc. Bottom line: Don't ever sign anything you can't read.

Mike

Guyin

The different feeling of
1. You are wrong until you are proven innocent, and
2. You are innocent until proven wrong

Landing Gear

When was the Bill of Rights applicable to a foreign government?

USCGamecock

Exactly. If an officer in another country asks me a question in the airport, I won't be giving them a reason to give me a full body search - no way!

Wally Bird

Sometimes.

cestmoi123

I'll edit to "successful hijacker." Again, without any sort of control group, it's hard to really determine the success rate, but there's at least circumstantial evidence that the process does work.

Wally Bird

That's OK, the TLV website makes the same statement with the appropriate umm.. qualification. ISTM that on this occasion the interview and the screening certainly failed but perhaps the kind of 'no faults' sophistry is one aspect of Israeli security the TSA has adopted .

essxjay

Despite some odd tangential comments here and there, this thread has managed to remain tracked. Please keep it that way. Thanks.

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essxjay
TS/S moderator