TSOs argue about rules
 

Tuesday at SDF, I had a brand new Wii in my carry on. I was under the impression that only gaming systems with a screen had to be removed. The TSO operating the monitor said I was wrong, and that it had to be rescanned. Another TSO standing there disagreed and said that I was correct in my belief. The two stood there and argued for literally five minutes, backing up the line. One rescanned the Wii while the other went to get the handbook. I never did get an official answer on which one was correct. Anyone have a link to an official answer?

The official answer is there is no official answer. I've left - purposely - a Cisco PIX firewall in my carry on to see how they would address. One trip it was required to be removed and scanned separately, another there was debate to which the supervisor told the TSO 'It's not a laptop' so it can stay in the bag.

TSA website says the large physical console has to come out, and that's what i was told at both the DEN and TPA checkpoints when asking.

I went through DEN with it tossed in a bin like my laptop - I left every other bit of wii in my roller bag in the original box still packed up and they didn't stop it, question it, or anything. The TSO who watched me unload (I was the only person in security at the same) even commented on the wii.

Also, a tip.. If the Wii and your shoes can fit in the same bin without sitting on top of each other, they can go through together. The TSO at DEN told me to do that when i had like 5 bins of stuff (wii, laptop, laptopcase, jacket/neckpillow, shoes) to help consolidate.

Shoes in the bins are disgusting. I prefer my jacket not to rub up against where people stepped in dog crap, spit, or to extinguish a cigarette.

I don't make the crazy, i just put up with it too. I don't have a shoe in or out preference, but some airports want them in, others want them out. I just do what's needed to get my shoes and wii back :)

I would address it with a shotgun, given a chance. I so loathe the PIX.

(And yet my boss talked me into buying some ASA 5550s. :eek:)

If the TSO running the x-ray wants the Wii revomved from the bag then it should be removed from the bag and rerun through the x-ray.
Here is the official word from TSA.gov :)

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/sop/index.shtm

It's not as if I refused, nor did I say the TSO was overstepping his authority. But it is nice to have an answer.

OT for this thread, but on the above linked page is something I had not noticed before:

"Q. Does your lighter need to be in a baggie since it contains liquid?
A. No. TSA's common-sense approach harmonizes with worldwide standards for lighters."

What is striking about this quote?

a. There is a TSA approved exception to the freedom baggie liquid rule :eek:
b. Someone at TSA put "TSA" and "common-sense" in the same sentence
c. all of the above? ^

Shoe-less feet on the floor are disgusting. I prefer my feet, socks or no socks, not be where people have stepped with dog crap covered shoes and left athlete's foot fungus, MRSA bacteria, wart-causing HPV, etc. Compared to this, the issue of jackets in bins that previously held dirty shoes is trivial.

TSOs working near the WTMD should be required work in bare or sock-covered feet to demonstrate that it's safe. They should not force thousands of passengers to do what they're not willing to do. After a year of having TSOs go shoeless, compare their rate of athlete's foot, warts, staph, etc. with the pre-shoeless rate.

Oh, so you say that would be a violation of workplace safety laws? I wonder why.

Yea, it would need to come out of the bag. If the PS3 has to come out, so does the Wii :). Where did you hear that about consoles without screens not going out of bags? (I'm just curious if it was TSO's, another passenger, because some TSO ignored someone elses, or you yourself thought that.)

Let's not forget the snowy areas--that dirty mucky slush made from all manner of dirt, snow, anti-skid material and who knows what else... :p

:confused: I always thought the Wii was considered a full-sized console?

Well, I have to shuffle through the mag every morning in my li'l sock feet (my work shoes contain steel shanks) and in a couple years of doing it 4-5 times a week, it hasn't harmed me yet! :)

It is a ull size console, it just happens to be tiny in those terms. It's like maybe the size of two old-style gameboys.

I got one recently and was quite surprised at how little it is. It fits in the front pocket of my laptop bag which i can only really fit CD/DVD cases and some paperwork into.

Actually i Have the definite answer. I was in Training Class and asked this question, and they have to come out of the box. They consider the box a bag and it must be removed.

TSOs have to enter the secure area through the WTMD? If so, are all of the guys that bring bags back to the x-ray loading area for a re-scan violating the rules?

:rolleyes:

What airport are you at?

And most of us are more practical at the checkpoint, considering that the box doesn't hinder any visibility on the x-ray, that sounds completely asinine. Then again, it is the training department.

A couple months ago I put my jacket on top of my carry on bag. A screener put the jacket into the bin where I had placed my shoes, but then the idiot put the shoes on top of the jacket. I brusquely told him I did not want shoes on top of my jacket, thinking along the same lines as LessO2. Imbecile screener then told me to calm down, asked me if I wanted to fly. We taxpayers are forking over $5.5 billion per year for a bunch of morons who cannot uniformly interpret ridiculous rules.

There's a lot going on in this thread, I will try to address as many parts of it as I can.

TSA policy is that large electronics need to come out of the bag. Game Consoles are generally considered to be large enough to be removed. Phones generally aren't large enough.

The TSO arguing with the X-Ray operator made several mistakes besides his confusion about whether Wii game consoles had to be removed. Most importantly the X-Ray operator is the authority and his/her decisions shouldn't be disputed. Image interpretation is difficult, and items need to be loaded into the X-Ray in the way that is most conducive to the operator detecting threats. And TSOs shouldn't argue about SOP in front at the checkpoint, it is unprofessional/


TSA has done a poor job of maintaining a consistent position about how items need to be loaded into the X-Ray. There is no national position about which items need to be loaded in bins or not. We get a lot of security guidance, however this is an area that directly impacts the customer's experience. At some airports, shoes aren't allowed to be run in bins in one lane and they are required to be run in a bin on the other. And at a third lane, no one cares. Since there is no guidance on this issue, individual TSOs make up rules as they go and it contributes to passenger confusion/anger.

Personally I agree that shoes belong on the belt and not in bins. I also don't think that many of the items that passengers try to run in bins (backpacks, etc) belong in bins.

Finally,

Matb2005 writes he received a definitive answer from training. This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Training can't give a definitive answer because they are not in charge of SOP adherence. They like to think they are. But SOP interpretation is an area in which Operations has authority and not the Training department. This question should have been directed to a manager who (if there was a dispute) have asked the AFSD-S. This sounds as if you asked someone and they gave you their opinion. Although I believe they gave you the right answer, just because the question came from Training doesn't make it any more right than if it had come from someone else. A definitive answer comes through the chain of command not from outside Operations.


Angry Dan

Monty Python Lives
 

There's a lot of airport screening that reminds me of many Monty Python skits :p, but this thread seems to particularly remind me of the Holy Grail (funniest movie ever) where all the guards are arguing over the air speed velocity of swallows that might then transport coconuts. :D
http://www.geocities.com/knightsaysni/mp/grail.txt; scene #1. :D

You can always tell who the newbies are...they adhere strictly to the rules until they have enough experience to allow their own judgement. I will say that Matb is correct, that is what they tell you to do in training. They also tell you that kippie bags must be out...nothing in the bin with a laptop...etc. Iworkhere is correct too. A box does not hinder an xray image of an item. If every screener followed the policies exactly, there would be less inconsistency, but it would be more of a pain.

Also, AngryDan is correct. The xray operator has the say on what gets checked, and arguing at the CP is totally unprofessional.

Actually, she wasnt sure so she went and asked our afsd-s and he was the one who told us that they need to be removed.

Could someone be so kind as to translate "AFSD-S" . . . ?

Asst. Federal Security Director....I don't know what the "-S" means...