"Volume = 3 oz" ???
 

Goodness, gracious, the difference between weight and volume - I'm sure it's been addressed here before!

But for those of us who missed the discussion the first (and second and third) time around . . . which is it, weight or volume? (Oh yes, I know the TSA website clearly says "volume," immediately after quoting a maximum weight!)

So, will a bottle that's labeled both "3.5 oz." AND "97 ml" make it through, or not?

Magic 8 Ball sez: "Flip a coin." (Seriously.)

Indeed, it depends on how much of an idiot the screener is...

So basically no, it wont get through? ;)

Remove the part of the label that says 3.5oz or sand the 3.5oz imprinted designation off the bottle. Problem solved, TSA stupidity remains.

I'm sorry to say that you have to go quite far up the TSA pay grades before you are guaranteed to find someone who understands the difference between weight and volume.

Spiff's advice is the only that will give you the least random experience.

That's quite clever, actually. I wouldn't have thought of it . . . .

Well, then, now I have to ask what would happen to a 3.5 oz. bottle of toothpowder. (Yes, old fashioned toothpowder!) Yes, it's powder, not liquid, but it's in a bottle . . . and rather suspicious looking, if you ask me.

Remove the powder from the bottle and put it into a bottle of talcum powder, or just keep it in the original package.

There is no restriction on tooth powder. They should, at worst, ETD your container. (without opening it. :eek: )

I've brought powder on many a time, outside my kippie bag and of a volume greater than 3.4oz (with such numbers on the container). Only once was it even pointed out (in CGN) and I reminded them that it was a powder and no more issues. If it isn't in the kippie bag odds are no one will even notice it.

I would go with the 97ml and let it go.

Powder is fine. It may get looked at, but it will be ok.

I failed HomeEc in Jr.High because I couldn't get the measurement conversion down. It has never been a strength of mine!

I don't think the average TSO needs to know how to convert between weight and volume, just what they are. Most humans probably don't know their volume. Most humans probably know their weight (ounce,pound, gram, kilogram, etc). Most humans think of liquids in volume (12 fl oz soda, 1 gallon of milk) and the units for that are fl. oz, cup, pint, quart, gallon or in metric, milliliter (mL), centiliter (cl), liter (L).

Do you buy milk by the pound? no! It annoys me on a deep level every time I hear that announcement about "liquids weighing 3 oz or less". I hear it every our in ORD.

You do not need to know that 1 oz of water = 1 fl oz of water or any other conversions..just the volume.

(btw...my shampoo bottle is 4 oz and never gets questioned).:D

Nah, if it isn't obviously over sized I don't bother...

Nah; in TSA fairyland, powders never are explosive. Terrorists have agreed to only use liquid explosives, and so, that's all we need be concerned about. (what was it Guy Fawkes was going to use on the British houses of Parliament again? Oh. yeah; it was gunliquid, wasn't it?) :rolleyes:

I've been dealing with this issue in my mind for well over a month now.

In mid-April I was flying DEN-ORD-STL on the return part of a mileage run with carry-on baggage only. As I had done for many trips in the past, I was bringing along my Fiber by American Crew hair care product.

For those who are not familiar, Fiber is a waxy product that -- as far as I am concerned is about as far as you can get from "liquid" or "gel". You can turn the container over, come back a week later and it will not have moved, oozed, dripped or what have you one bit.

I had been leaving it in my toiletry kit with no issues, including on the outbound leg from STL the previous day.

But, no. Denver is apparently afraid of American's bearing hair care products. I put my backpack through the X-ray machine and the agent (Anthony -- if you want his badge number, please let me know) says he needs to look inside.

He proudly pulls out my container of Fiber -- labeled 3.5 oz -- and says it is too big to go through security. In a moment of frustration, I don't realize my legitimate arguments that a) it's not a liquid in any conceivable form of the word and b) the size listed on the package is weight, not volume which is what the TSA restriction is based on.

I spent an hour that week arguing the difference between FLUID ounces and OUNCES with someone on the TSA "Customer Service Line" who had no clue about mass vs. volume -- she really did say that something weighing 3.5 oz would have a volume greater than 3.4 oz if melted, which is clearly not true.

I gave up.. scraped the size information off of my new contained of Fiber and just put it in my baggie.

I guess the terrorists have won.

Greg

TSA has clearly stated on their web site it is volume. Therefore there is no guarantee that the agent will adhere to the policy.

Perhaps more important is the possible error in the labeling. 3.5 oz. is more than 100 ml, so the 97 ml equivalence is in error. However, if the 3.5 oz are UK ounces (yes Virginia there is a unit known as UK ounces) it would be equivalent to 99ml (although not 97 ml) making it perfectly consistent with the TSA regulations. But then we shouldn't confuse the very thoroughly trained TSA agents with facts and knowledge.

Stay the curse!

Curses, I've been caught! I indeed posted my initial query without actually looking at the container (which was all the way at the other end of the house, etc., etc.), not realizing, of course, that an alert FTer would sooner or later notice that the approximations I'd used were in error.

However, 3.5 oz. is not "more than 100 ml," as sailman suggests. That's the whole point, isn't it? 3.5 oz. of something could fill a container significantly larger or smaller than 100 ml - depending on what the stuff is!

In this case, the stuff is toothpaste. The weight is 3.3 oz, and the volume is only 75 ml. If the weight were 3.5 (or 3.6 or 3.7 . . ), the volume would still be significantly less than 100 ml.

By the way, thank you to everyone who suggested just removing the labels and making life easier.

Although, if I didn't actually want to go somewhere, I'd be seriously tempted to take a high school science book to the checkpoint with me. :D

High school science texts are the terrorist's Bible!

I stick by my initial post. If oz. and ml are used in the same breath without a qualifier for the oz. (volume or wt), the reasonable supposition is that the ounces are in volume as ml (millileters) can be nothing other than a volume measurement.

If you precisely quoted the label, and the ounces are indeed weight rather than volume, then the label is incorrect and in violation of package label laws and guidelines.

One other comment. You need not refer to a high school text. A grade school text will suffice. You don't want to confuse anyone with long sentences with multi-syllable words. After all as our president stated when announcing the "Reading First" initiative in Reston Virginia, March 28, 2000 - "Reading is the basics for all learning." Which is in keeping with the policy of "no child's behind left."

Stay the curse!

Correct. The rule is 3 oz, not 100 mL. http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/311/index.shtm

Except when it's not.... http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/assets/pdf/311-broch-french.pdf

I wonder what would happen if I had a container labeled 1 Newton at ground level since that is the weight of a 3oz mass on the earth's surface

<hides>

Or, take a 50 ml plastic liquor bottle, relabel it in big letters "Net Contents: FIVE US GALLONS" and dare them to confiscate it. :p

That page is - and has been for some time - wrong. The rule actually is 100mL. The TSA just assumes that everyone in the USA doesn't know what a mL is and tried to convert it to 3 (fl) oz. Of course, that is great for a catchy slogan like 3-1-1, but it is actually not what their policies are written as.

Awesome.

Not so fast my friend.
I bought a travel bottle that did not have a measurement on it. I tested it and it was 3 oz.
The TSA guy questioned it. He let it slide, but I had to explain that I measured it.
It is all so silly.
One 9 oz container = dangerous
3 3oz. containers = perfectly safe

I'm sure these half-wits also use 22/7 for ∏ and then wonder why their hardware doesn't work properly.

I just give them $1.23 when I am charged $.98 after they ring in $1.00 tendered and watch their confused look. Oh wait, that's a different group.....

Be prepared for a huge argument if you try this. The rules don't state that the volume must be on the package, but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with their actual enforcement at some airports. This is true even when it is obvious that the container is smaller than 100ml.

Isn't a Newton related to force and not mass, and equals 3.6 ounce-force?

Stay the curse.

Isn't a Newton related to force and not mass, and equals 3.6 ounce-force? Or is the key "at ground level", assuming earth?

Stay the curse.

Consumers buy milk by volume, but farmers sell it my weight (hundredweight, or 100 lb units).