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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   New security camera can 'see' through clothes (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/813520-new-security-camera-can-see-through-clothes.html)

omahajim Apr 16, 2008 9:13 am
New security camera can 'see' through clothes
 
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe...and/index.html

LONDON, England (CNN) -- New technology that can "see" through clothing and detect what's underneath can now be used to scan crowds, making it a potentially effective tool to prevent terrorist attacks in public places.
..
While similar technology is being unveiled at airports around the world, the T5000 is designed to be used in large, open areas. With a range of 25 meters, the T5000 can screen people in public places, thus avoiding bottlenecks at border crossings or security checkpoints.
Does this mean that secondaries by hand could be eliminated? Or even the WTMD? If all we really need to be concerned with (guns, large knives, explosives) could be revealed with this device, then no need to do physical pat downs anymore?

The article also says that this device is already deployed in London. I did a search for T5000 here on FT and didn't reveal any previous postings on that term... what do the experts here know about this?

pinkcat Apr 16, 2008 9:21 am
not an expert but they have 2 machines at LHR which they select people for at secuity, you have to adopt a number of silly poses and then they scan you , looking back at the shots you can see where you need to exercise more, only ever been selected once so I dont know the criteria

MSY-MSP Apr 16, 2008 10:47 am
If everything they list about it is true, then I think it could be a very useful tool that may actually be effective. I have concerns but

1) If it is completely passive, then there is no real physical harm to the pax other than the harm of ordinary life. So that is a good thing

2) I have a concern as to what can actually be seen. depending on that I may or may not have a concern

3) At 25 meters effectiveness, this could seriously change the way a security checkpoint is designed. (it may even make the process quicker.) I am almost thinking of the "Total Recall" system, but without X-Ray.

4) For some reason I see this being used in customs halls first before being used at a checkpoint. Reason being is that it should easily detect the mules.

However, from what little i have read, this actually looks to be a good idea. At least better than backscatter

GUWonder Apr 16, 2008 10:51 am
I've discussed this before, although I don't recall where at the moment.

It also later came on this, which I definitely did not miss:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive..._that_see.html

planeluvr Apr 16, 2008 10:55 am
Code:
"What we should consider is how much we want to lose aspects of our privacy
in order to attain a sort of notional security," said David Murakami Wood,
director of the Surveillance Studies Network, which deals with surveillance
and privacy issues."In most cases this isn't real security -- it's a sense
of safety that has very little real effect."
I agree.

tev9999 Apr 16, 2008 11:38 am
I saw this on CNN this morning. It did not look like there was any kind of resolution that would show what the image was - just a blob. The people looked like a blurry stay-puf marshmallow man and the "bomb" he was hiding under his shirt was just a black blob.

Even if it did work and they tried it in public in the US, how well would it go when they start outing undercover cops, federal marshals and people with valid CCW permits?

doober Apr 16, 2008 11:58 am
The thought of someone being able to look through my clothes while I'm walking through an airport, or any place, just sends shivers up and down my spine.

This is NOT what this country is (or, sadly, was) all about.

whirledtraveler Apr 16, 2008 12:00 pm
Originally Posted by doober (Post 9583202)
The thought of someone being able to look through my clothes while I'm walking through an airport, or any place, just sends shivers up and down my spine.

This is NOT what this country is (or, sadly, was) all about.
When technology like this becomes available, it's only a little while before it falls into consumer use. We'll all get used to seeing each other nekkid. Don't buy stocks in textiles.

ralfp Apr 16, 2008 12:05 pm
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 9583221)
When technology like this becomes available, it's only a little while before it falls into consumer use. We'll all get used to seeing each other nekkid.
Until then it can't be used to gather evidence outside of otherwise authorized searches. That is if I interpret the SCOTUS ruling on the thermal imaging -> marijuana arrest case correctly.

bocastephen Apr 16, 2008 1:29 pm
We need to go through one scan or another at the airport - whether it's the WTMD, backscatter or ultrasound, we need to check for guns, explosives, etc.

Do I support this technology being used on crowds without specific knowledge or consent over how/where it's used or what it's looking for? No way.

Do I support this technology as a passive, non-radioactive alternative to backscatter, with smudged outlines of people instead of clear profiles, and perhaps able to scan multiple people simultaneously to improve checkpoint flow? Well, perhaps, but I need to know more.

MileageAddict Apr 16, 2008 1:40 pm
Soon enough, airport security videos of hotties going through the "see-all" machine will show up on youtube.

Gargoyle Apr 16, 2008 1:43 pm
If it shows the subject with sufficiently clear resolution, this will end the TSA staffing problems; they'll have no shortage of guys trying to get hired, and even offering to work for free. (thereby offsetting the cost of the equipment)

N830MH Apr 16, 2008 11:27 pm
Originally Posted by MileageAddict (Post 9583876)
Soon enough, airport security videos of hotties going through the "see-all" machine will show up on youtube.
When I can see those video from YouTube? :confused: I'm sure if security will able change new technology of the future. If you can given these video for me if I can watched it.

KleineFrau Apr 17, 2008 4:39 am
Ah-ha! The naked machine strikes again. Well, I'll be wearing my steel chastity knickers and brassiere again in London.

And I'm still not getting into that machine at the airport.


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