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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Detained and delayed by the TSA for appearing "nervous" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/791623-detained-delayed-tsa-appearing-nervous.html)

SAT Lawyer Feb 18, 2008 12:10 pm


Originally Posted by LAlady (Post 9270976)
You admit that you cut it close, as you always do, when getting to the airport. Come on, you should know better. :td:

Excuse me if I already spend more time than I would like in airports around the globe. As I mentioned before, I will accept responsibility for any flight I miss due to my own negligence. Furthermore, as I clearly noted earlier:

Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268878)
. . . In this case, even with an unusually long and slow-moving security line for my home airport, I still should have had sufficient time to board my flight normally even allowing for a full five to ten-minute secondary screening with all the attendant festivities including a wanding, pat down, swabbing for explosives, thorough search of my carry-on bags, and a complete question and answer session. Had the TSA not acted in a dilatory fashion with the apparent objective of only releasing me a moment after it appeared that it would be impossible for me to board my flight, I still would have been okay without extraordinary help and intervention by NW.


As a fellow passenger (and as a passenger in general) it irritates me to know that the aircraft pulled back up to the gate for one person. That delays the whole system.
The aircraft did not have to be towed or taxi back to the gate, contrary to your erroneous belief. Although it was about to push back, it had not yet moved an inch. The jet bridge, on the other hand, which had been retracted, was re-attached and the aircraft door re-opened to accommodate me. As it was, even with the additional time it took to get me on board, my luggage stowed, and me seated, we arrived on-time at MEM.

Superguy Feb 18, 2008 12:21 pm


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 9271204)
He could post to the TSA blog where they could, if they really wanted to, track him down, but they won't. (That's the reason you can't post to the blog from Firefox; TSA wants the cookies that they get from IE.)

I post to it all the time from Sea Monkey, which is the former Mozilla suite and cousin to Firefox. So it's not just an IE blog.

flyingbrick Feb 18, 2008 2:01 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268729)
I have contemplated sending a letter of complaint to my Senator, John Cornyn. I would have certainly done so if I encountered any difficulty with customs and immigration or the TSA upon my return tonight. But it was smooth sailing today, hopefully suggesting that the incident on Thursday will not cause me further hardship. I'd certainly like to leave it at that. Because I don't want to wind up on some mysterious and likely unchallengeable blacklist, I probably won't pursue this further even though I am now a member of an ever-growing list of harmless and law-abiding travelers who have been mistreated by the TSA.

If you are afraid to write to the TSA, the "terrorists" are winning. If you are afraid to write to your senator, the "terrorists" have already won.

vasantn Feb 18, 2008 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by flyingbrick (Post 9271923)
If you are afraid to write to the TSA, the "terrorists" are winning. If you are afraid to write to your senator, the "terrorists" have already won.

I've got news for you; the terrorists have already won. They have turned us into a nation of Chicken Littles.

goalie Feb 18, 2008 4:05 pm


Originally Posted by vasantn (Post 9272145)

Originally Posted by flyingbrick (Post 9271923)
If you are afraid to write to the TSA, the "terrorists" are winning. If you are afraid to write to your senator, the "terrorists" have already won.

I've got news for you; the terrorists have already won. They have turned us into a nation of Chicken Littles.

bingo ^

bocastephen Feb 18, 2008 11:53 pm

Welcome to our side - sorry it had to come from suffering such an experience, but at least now you know what we've all been hollering about for years.

Had you spoken up, you might have landed face-first on the ground courtesy of the airport cops. As others pointed out, the #1 rule when dealing with the TSA is never speak to them - never initiate a conversation, never volunteer information, and always avoid eye contact.

I'm guessing that you will sign up at our soon-to-be-minted 527 Group ;)

Since the TSA is unaccountable for its actions and the behavior of its screeners, your options are limited beyond sending a standard 'vent' letter to what is likely a set of very unsympathetic legislators. Given that SAT is a smaller-sized airport, you might want to see if you can book a few minutes with a member of the airport authority - quite often they are local members of the business community. After giving them a rundown on your experience, you can ask them to escalate to the airport director. I'm suggesting you consider this route, since San Antonio is a smaller-sized city and it's possible you might know someone on the authority board, or be connected to a board member through some professional contact.

The board can push the director who can push the FSD who is the only one who can hold the screeners accountable at this point....just be aware, if the screeners get dinged for this, you could be at war with them every time you go to the airport, but if you can stomach the fight, it would be worthwhile. If they try to mess with you again as a result of your official complaint, another escalation might actually get them pink-slipped.

whirledtraveler Feb 18, 2008 11:57 pm

This is SAT? It thought that SAT was supposed to be one of the sensible checkpoints because you know who is there.

mkt Feb 19, 2008 4:40 am


Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 9274529)
This is SAT? It thought that SAT was supposed to be one of the sensible checkpoints because you know who is there.

speaking of you know who (Voldemort? Who knows)... I would have expected a reply by now

doober Feb 19, 2008 5:22 am


Originally Posted by mkt (Post 9275116)
speaking of you know who (Voldemort? Who knows)... I would have expected a reply by now

You Know Who hasn't posted anywhere since his last suspension several weeks ago. Took his toys and went home.

Mats Feb 19, 2008 7:20 am

Although NWA allows online check-in for international flights, the printout says something like "Verify Documents" on top. i figured that this would upset our friends at the TSA, so I reprinted at the kiosk. Also, I never show my passport for the domestic leg of an international trip. It gives the TSA too much opportunity for scrutiny and questions.

Global_Hi_Flyer Feb 19, 2008 8:35 am


Originally Posted by flyingbrick (Post 9267867)
Never, ever tell any US government employee at any airport that you are late for a flight. Their first and only thought is that you need to be taught a lesson.

My experience exactly. It was a TSA'er at Terminal 2 of SAT that also lectured me for arriving less than 2 hours before my 6:30 AM flight (notwithstanding that the security screening facility doesn't open that early).

Moron.


Originally Posted by xyzzy (Post 9268355)
:eek: Welcome to our world :eek:

Rule number zero -- don't talk to the TSA. It can only cause problems.
Rule number one -- see rule number zero.

Agree.


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268729)
As an attorney, I am intimately familiar with my rights including my right to remain silent. With that said, I fully expected that my cooperation would expedite things, rather than prolonging them. I am certain that had I been uncooperative or demonstrated my frustration outwardly, it would have only extended the "festivities." Had I missed my flight or had I been traveling on a purely domestic itinerary with a number of alternatives to patch up the disruption caused by a missed flight, I likely would have escalated things further, but the last thing I wanted to do was further jeopardize my ability to travel that evening, especially with a very brief weekend trip to Europe in the cards.

I have contemplated sending a letter of complaint to my Senator, John Cornyn. I would have certainly done so if I encountered any difficulty with customs and immigration or the TSA upon my return tonight. But it was smooth sailing today, hopefully suggesting that the incident on Thursday will not cause me further hardship. I'd certainly like to leave it at that. Because I don't want to wind up on some mysterious and likely unchallengeable blacklist, I probably won't pursue this further even though I am now a member of an ever-growing list of harmless and law-abiding travelers who have been mistreated by the TSA.

You might be better pursuing it with Kay Bailey, as opposed to Cornyn. Pursuing the issue with your elected representative should NOT result in an SSSS'ing. I've written complaints to both before (and got the cockroach letter in response).

If you're a big campaign contributor, consider using that as access - they have a vested interest in keeping you happy. Perhaps direct some campaign contributions elsewhere. And make sure they know why.


Originally Posted by bzbdewd (Post 9268817)
How does it feel to be afraid of your government? Which is exactly why you SHOULD pursue it.

Exactly. This administration - and this party - have created a culture of fear. And that's being used to give people authority to delay and harass with no accountability.

It's particularly troubling that his information was not only written down, but also photocopied. That, right there, is a diminuation of rights.


Originally Posted by LAlady (Post 9270976)
You admit that you cut it close, as you always do, when getting to the airport. Come on, you should know better. :td:

People on these boards ALWAYS lament the smoke and mirrors techniques the TSA employs and beg the question why doesn't the TSA use behavioral techniques similar to ElAl to thwart terrorists. Well, in your case, they detained you because you were acting nervous/anxious by their estimation, and whether you were able to detect it in your own behavior or not, perhaps you weren't keeping your seething irritation in check as well as you'd like to think. @:-)

As a fellow passenger (and as a passenger in general) it irritates me to know that the aircraft pulled back up to the gate for one person. That delays the whole system.

:td: Oh, come on now. I've been through SAT a LOT. SAT Lawyer has been a frequent poster in the WN forum. WN leaves from the same concourse as NW. There are a million reasons that someone may run a little late (not the least of which is the construction at and around the SAT airport :td:).

From the OP, it appears that TSA deliberately harassed and delayed the OP when he noted that he was running late. There is no reason for TSA to "learn" him. They could have noted the departure time and assisted in getting him through quickly. Being irritated is no reason to justify the kind of treatment that OP received.

Frankly, I'm glad the flight was held - the time was miniscule (and I'll bet that it even arrived at MEM on-time). NW did a great customer service for someone harassed by the TSA, and undoubtedly helped the system in ensuring that OP made the original international connection. It's not like there are tons of options out of SAT.


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 9271204)
I, too, am disappointed that the OP does not seem to want to take this any further. I don't think there's a tinker's chance in he** that he'd end up on a watch list.

He could post to the TSA blog where they could, if they really wanted to, track him down, but they won't. (That's the reason you can't post to the blog from Firefox; TSA wants the cookies that they get from IE.)

If those of you complaining about the OP not getting to the airport 2 hours ahead of his flight, you must not have noticed this in his post: "Usually getting through security at SAT is a breeze". This is true; seldom does the wait time last more than 10 minutes, so getting to the airport 40 mins before a flight does not seem unreasonable.

40 minutes is USUALLY enough time to clear the Terminal A checkpoint. At worst, it's a 20 minute wait (unless they decide to close one of the screening lines like they did to me one time).

SAT Lawyer, I'm of the camp that says this incident deserves a letter to your senators. At the very least, being willing to stand up and defend the rights of Americans is warranted.

vasantn Feb 19, 2008 9:13 am


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 9276035)
SAT Lawyer, I'm of the camp that says this incident deserves a letter to your senators. At the very least, being willing to stand up and defend the rights of Americans is warranted.

Will SAT Lawyer take action? Will he come back here to give us an update? Will Brazil win the next World Cup? Will we ever find out the secret of the island on the series Lost? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

viking407rob Feb 19, 2008 12:40 pm


Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 9267772)
This is the first time I've heard of the TSA photocopying a passport.

I've seen it done, more so by USCIS but I have heard of the kind TSA folks doing it. Its a distinct possibility that some potentially (probably) dishonest people now have your address and tons of personal information. With this in mind, if the detainee becomes victim of a property crime or identity theft, those possessing such info might be a good place to start investigating. I literally shudder to think of the amount of identity theft that has gone on by allowing people who couldn't get a job at the post office to have access to such sensitive information.

Superguy Feb 19, 2008 2:37 pm


Originally Posted by viking407rob (Post 9277664)
I've seen it done, more so by USCIS but I have heard of the kind TSA folks doing it. Its a distinct possibility that some potentially (probably) dishonest people now have your address and tons of personal information. With this in mind, if the detainee becomes victim of a property crime or identity theft, those possessing such info might be a good place to start investigating. I literally shudder to think of the amount of identity theft that has gone on by allowing people who couldn't get a job at the post office to have access to such sensitive information.

But but but ... these people have had extensive background checks and have been cleared to SSI! Surely we can trust them! :D

stupidhead Feb 19, 2008 3:14 pm

I don't know anyone who wouldn't be nervous if they were landside in line for security and was watching their flight boarding. Seems perfectly normal to be nervous to me, given the circumstances. Especially when you had an international connection at the other end of the flight.

I haven't heard from Bin Laden in a while, can anyone go check on him? Perhaps he laughed himself to death, and we can finally get those troops' butts on a plane home.


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