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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Detained and delayed by the TSA for appearing "nervous" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/791623-detained-delayed-tsa-appearing-nervous.html)

SAT Lawyer Feb 17, 2008 10:12 pm

As an attorney, I am intimately familiar with my rights including my right to remain silent. With that said, I fully expected that my cooperation would expedite things, rather than prolonging them. I am certain that had I been uncooperative or demonstrated my frustration outwardly, it would have only extended the "festivities." Had I missed my flight or had I been traveling on a purely domestic itinerary with a number of alternatives to patch up the disruption caused by a missed flight, I likely would have escalated things further, but the last thing I wanted to do was further jeopardize my ability to travel that evening, especially with a very brief weekend trip to Europe in the cards.

I have contemplated sending a letter of complaint to my Senator, John Cornyn. I would have certainly done so if I encountered any difficulty with customs and immigration or the TSA upon my return tonight. But it was smooth sailing today, hopefully suggesting that the incident on Thursday will not cause me further hardship. I'd certainly like to leave it at that. Because I don't want to wind up on some mysterious and likely unchallengeable blacklist, I probably won't pursue this further even though I am now a member of an ever-growing list of harmless and law-abiding travelers who have been mistreated by the TSA.

boiflyer Feb 17, 2008 10:30 pm

One of a few lessons that may be learned here: Only show the TSA the boarding pass for the immediate flight. Who knows if it would have changed anything, but something to think about nonetheless.

vasantn Feb 17, 2008 10:36 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268729)
Because I don't want to wind up on some mysterious and likely unchallengeable blacklist, I probably won't pursue this further even though I am not a member of an ever-growing list of harmless and law-abiding travelers who have been mistreated by the TSA.

NOT a member? :confused:

Glad to see you're finally acknowledging the stuff in blue, though. There is hope for you! ;)

bzbdewd Feb 17, 2008 10:42 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268729)
Because I don't want to wind up on some mysterious and likely unchallengeable blacklist, I probably won't pursue this further even though I am not a member of an ever-growing list of harmless and law-abiding travelers who have been mistreated by the TSA.

How does it feel to be afraid of your government? Which is exactly why you SHOULD pursue it.

19103_aa Feb 17, 2008 10:49 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268729)
I have contemplated sending a letter of complaint to my Senator, John Cornyn.
... Because I don't want to wind up on some mysterious and likely unchallengeable blacklist, I probably won't pursue this further even though I am not a member of an ever-growing list of harmless and law-abiding travelers who have been mistreated by the TSA.

I'm sorry to hear of your experience; a growing number of folks have had your experience.

My best outcome from a complaint letter was one I sent to Admiral Stone (who is now Kip Hawley), with a copy to both my senators. It was the one and only time I haven't received a chain letter reply. The reply was sent to both me and one of the senators, who I learned later had sent a formal query to the TSA. Second, This senator's legislative assistant for TSA affairs contacted me on two occasions following up. Following these letters, I have never been SSSS'd, etc. So, I don't think that concern is warranted.

I would encourage CCing your letter to both Senators and your Congressman. I would reflect that in your letter addressed to Kip Hawley. There are numerous concerns. I would stick to the photocopying of your IDs (a violation of the privacy act), rude treatment, and delay tactics. While you will not personally receive any satisfaction, the more data points out there that the TSA is completely dysfunctional, the closer we get to bouncing the clowns.

Added: The only time I make any query with TSA is right at the front of a long line if my flight is very close. Otherwise, I'm always cool as a cucumber through the entire checkpoint process. I never let them think I'm hurried.

SAT Lawyer Feb 17, 2008 10:57 pm


Originally Posted by drat19 (Post 9267984)
As sympathetic as I am to your plight, SAT Lawyer, and as unacceptable as it was for TSA to deliberately work to try to make you miss your flight, the fact is that by cutting it so close, both this time and (apparently) all the time, you're a creature of your own making. Let me be clear: There is NO excuse for TSA's actions toward you, but if you continually show up "just in time" to an entirely-variable environment such as the TSA checkpoint at any airport, then you continually run the risk of having an unknown variable such as an unpatriotic and vindictive-for-no-other-reason-than-"because-he-can"-TSO cause you to miss your flight. Start showing up earlier.

As someone who travels very frequently, I have no desire to spend any more time than absolutely necessary in airports. I certainly am willing to accept responsibility for my own negligence if I am tardy in getting to the airport and cut it too close because of my own poor judgment. However, in this case, even with an unusually long and slow-moving security line for my home airport, I still should have had sufficient time to board my flight normally even allowing for a full five to ten-minute secondary screening with all the attendant festivities including a wanding, pat down, swabbing for explosives, thorough search of my carry-on bags, and a complete question and answer session. Had the TSA not acted in a dilatory fashion with the apparent objective of only releasing me a moment after it appeared that it would be impossible for me to board my flight, I still would have been okay without extraordinary help and intervention by NW.

SAT Lawyer Feb 17, 2008 10:58 pm


Originally Posted by vasantn (Post 9268802)
NOT a member? :confused:

I meant to write "now" not "not." I've edited my post accordingly. Sorry for the confusion.

SAT Lawyer Feb 17, 2008 11:05 pm


Originally Posted by underpressure (Post 9267832)
First, I didn't realize that it was permissible to check in on line for an international flight.

It is with NW, although you have to swipe your passport at a kiosk or show it to an agent at the airport before flying.


Originally Posted by boiflyer (Post 9268781)
One of a few lessons that may be learned here: Only show the TSA the boarding pass for the immediate flight. Who knows if it would have changed anything, but something to think about nonetheless.

The boarding documents generated by NW's online check-in process display all flights on an uninterrupted itinerary on a single page (space permitting).

videomaker Feb 17, 2008 11:06 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9267635)
Despite my relief at making my flight and making my connection to Europe, the actions of the TSA folks at the airport were disgraceful. :td: Those who know me or have read even a handful of my postings will know that I am very much a law-and-order conservative Republican. I pride myself on being unfailingly polite when dealing with authority figures and almost always defend the TSA from what I perceive to be unfair criticism. So for somebody like myself to be appalled by the behavior of the TSA takes a lot. In this case, I was treated very poorly.

One of the basic arguments I've heard attorneys make in civil-rights cases goes something like, "If it can happen to them, it can happen to you"--meaning, of course, if we allow anyone's rights to be violated, then no one else can expect to be protected.

Sadly, it just happened to you.

Landing Gear Feb 17, 2008 11:15 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268729)
As an attorney, I am intimately familiar with my rights including my right to remain silent.

As your brother in the bar, you have my complete sympathy.

Please do not consider the following as an attempt to depose you but I am very curious as to how the TSA got a hold of your credit cards.

I was under the impression that only Customs could do something like that or has Kip discovered a new "credit card threat?":confused:

Jaimito Cartero Feb 17, 2008 11:28 pm

Thumbs up NWA, thumbs way down TSA
 
I'm sorry to hear about SAT encounter with the dreaded TSA. I don't blame him for not using the DYKWIA card, as he wanted to make his plane. Just like when you get nailed for speeding, rather that trying to get out of the ticket, you admit your fault and just want to be on your way. You don't expect 10 other cop cars to show up, and start strapping on rubber gloves!

The only time I'm at the airport 2 hours ahead of time, is if I'm trying to standby for an earlier flight, or want to relax in the lounge first. Being able to park next to the terminal, using the FC security line, and having no luggage to check is a big time saver. I even left my house one time 30 minutes before the flight (and it's 15 minutes to the airport). but I won't do that again!

It's also a very big plus for the NW people. I'd send a TTU to them, complimenting their service.

It is a very sad commentary on our society, that we're afraid of being subjected to more harassment, and keep quiet for fear of more of the same, or greater. Honestly, what are we becoming?

ralfp Feb 17, 2008 11:29 pm


Originally Posted by underpressure (Post 9267832)
First, I didn't realize that it was permissible to check in on line for an international flight.

Perhaps your airline doesn't let you do this, but others do. I guess some flyertalkers (>16k posts!) must be pretty loyal to their airline of choice.

dg4255 Feb 17, 2008 11:32 pm

I agree with Ari, for a FT Evangelist, I expect better..


Originally Posted by Ari (Post 9267906)
:td: to your lousy attitude and negative contribution to this thread.


Yaatri Feb 17, 2008 11:35 pm


Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer (Post 9268883)
I meant to write "now" not "not." I've edited my post accordingly. Sorry for the confusion.

I guessed as much. "now" is the only word that made any sense in the context.

Let me, first of all, say, I am sorry at the way you were treated. I am glad you were able to make your flight in the end. Also, "Welcome to the Club". I hope you can understand some of the feelings I have for what has been thrust upon us in the name of security, TSA is but one example. Other measures such as Patriot act were no better.

You have seen how some of the TSA employees abuse the power they have. Now you are afraid to take action. Does that mean you are afraid of retaliation?

I do not know if you are brown or white, nor does it matter. But try and imagine how bad it could it be if you were brown, a muslim, or some one thought you were.

I understand your outrage at TSA tactics. I also believe you are respectful of authority, law abiding and all that. You were no threat to the safety of any aircraft or any of the passengers. Yet you were mistreated. You felt outraged because you were innocent. But... Yes, there is a but. You felt many measures such as water boarding were OK as they were being used on "others" to extract information. I hope your outrage is does not mean "Don't look at me. I am law abiding and respectful. I don't look like a terrorist. Search him"

Yaatri Feb 17, 2008 11:37 pm


Originally Posted by Landing Gear (Post 9268917)
As your brother in the bar, you have my complete sympathy.

Please do not consider the following as an attempt to depose you but I am very curious as to how the TSA got a hold of your credit cards.

I was under the impression that only Customs could do something like that or has Kip discovered a new "credit card threat?":confused:

When they want to harass you, they bully you into emtying all your pockets. They would insist on sending everything through the x-rays. If you are the co-operative kind of guy, you will do it. That's how they get tgheir hands on your wallet.


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