New (to me) lithium battery limits from the TSA
Dec 28, 2007, 5:13 pm
#16
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Here's the real deal, from http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...batteries.shtm
Travel Alert Starting January 1, 2008
Spare Lithium Batteries No Longer Allowed in Checked Baggage.
Effective January 1, 2008, spare lithium batteries - extra batteries not installed on devices - will no longer be allowed in checked baggage. Spare lithium batteries may be packed in carry-on baggage and lithium batteries installed in a device may be packed in either checked or carry-on, as long as the battery is installed in the device.
You can learn more at http://Safetravel.dot.gov
and
"Lithium Batteries: Safety and Security
Lithium-ion batteries, often found in laptop computers, differ from primary lithium batteries, which are often used in cameras. Some newer AA-size batteries are also primary lithium.
While there is no explosion hazard associated with either kind of battery, the Federal Aviation Administration has studied fire hazards associated with both primary and lithium-ion cells, and their extensive research is publicly available. As a result of this research, the FAA no longer allows large, palletized shipments of these batteries to be transported as cargo on passenger aircraft.
The research also shows that an explosion will not result from shorting or damaging either lithium-ion or primary lithium batteries. Both are, however, extremely flammable. Primary lithium batteries cannot be extinguished with firefighting agents normally carried on aircraft, whereas lithium-ion batteries are easily extinguished by most common extinguishing agents, including those carried on board commercial aircraft.
TSA has and will continue to work closely with the FAA on potential aviation safety and security issues, and TSA security officers are thoroughly and continually trained to find explosive threats. TSA does not have plans to change security regulations for electronic devices powered by lithium batteries."
and, courtesy of Joe Brancatelli, the DOT statement:
THE DOT STATEMENT:
Passengers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning January 1, 2008 once new federal safety rules take effect. The new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, will continue to allow lithium batteries in checked baggage if they are installed in electronic devices, or in carry-on baggage if stored in plastic bags.
Common consumer electronics such as travel cameras, cell phones, and most laptop computers are still allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. However, the rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries, such as laptop and professional audio/video/camera equipment lithium batteries in carry-on baggage.
“Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag w ill prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires,” said Krista Edwards, Deputy Administrator of the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
Lithium batteries are considered hazardous materials because they can overheat and ignite in certain conditions. Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight.
“This rule protects the passenger,” said Lynne Osmus, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) assistant administrator for security and hazardous materials. “It’s one more step for safety. It’s the right thing to do and the right time to do it.”
In addition to the new rule, PHMSA is working with the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the battery and airline industries, airline employee organizations, testing laboratories, and the emergency response communities to increase public awareness about battery-related risks and developments. These useful safety tips are highlighted at the public website: http://safetravel.dot.gov.
Ahem, "the right time to do it." What in this world possesses these people to make sudden changes between or near holidays, with minimal response time for travelers?
(Of course, I carry a number of Li batteries to power my u/w video camera, lights, etc. but I'm going to have to reread the new regs and figure what I will be entitled to travel with now. First, my pony and bail-out tanks, now this...)
Travel Alert Starting January 1, 2008
Spare Lithium Batteries No Longer Allowed in Checked Baggage.
Effective January 1, 2008, spare lithium batteries - extra batteries not installed on devices - will no longer be allowed in checked baggage. Spare lithium batteries may be packed in carry-on baggage and lithium batteries installed in a device may be packed in either checked or carry-on, as long as the battery is installed in the device.
You can learn more at http://Safetravel.dot.gov
and
"Lithium Batteries: Safety and Security
Lithium-ion batteries, often found in laptop computers, differ from primary lithium batteries, which are often used in cameras. Some newer AA-size batteries are also primary lithium.
While there is no explosion hazard associated with either kind of battery, the Federal Aviation Administration has studied fire hazards associated with both primary and lithium-ion cells, and their extensive research is publicly available. As a result of this research, the FAA no longer allows large, palletized shipments of these batteries to be transported as cargo on passenger aircraft.
The research also shows that an explosion will not result from shorting or damaging either lithium-ion or primary lithium batteries. Both are, however, extremely flammable. Primary lithium batteries cannot be extinguished with firefighting agents normally carried on aircraft, whereas lithium-ion batteries are easily extinguished by most common extinguishing agents, including those carried on board commercial aircraft.
TSA has and will continue to work closely with the FAA on potential aviation safety and security issues, and TSA security officers are thoroughly and continually trained to find explosive threats. TSA does not have plans to change security regulations for electronic devices powered by lithium batteries."
and, courtesy of Joe Brancatelli, the DOT statement:
THE DOT STATEMENT:
Passengers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning January 1, 2008 once new federal safety rules take effect. The new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, will continue to allow lithium batteries in checked baggage if they are installed in electronic devices, or in carry-on baggage if stored in plastic bags.
Common consumer electronics such as travel cameras, cell phones, and most laptop computers are still allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. However, the rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries, such as laptop and professional audio/video/camera equipment lithium batteries in carry-on baggage.
“Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag w ill prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires,” said Krista Edwards, Deputy Administrator of the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
Lithium batteries are considered hazardous materials because they can overheat and ignite in certain conditions. Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight.
“This rule protects the passenger,” said Lynne Osmus, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) assistant administrator for security and hazardous materials. “It’s one more step for safety. It’s the right thing to do and the right time to do it.”
In addition to the new rule, PHMSA is working with the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the battery and airline industries, airline employee organizations, testing laboratories, and the emergency response communities to increase public awareness about battery-related risks and developments. These useful safety tips are highlighted at the public website: http://safetravel.dot.gov.
Ahem, "the right time to do it." What in this world possesses these people to make sudden changes between or near holidays, with minimal response time for travelers?
(Of course, I carry a number of Li batteries to power my u/w video camera, lights, etc. but I'm going to have to reread the new regs and figure what I will be entitled to travel with now. First, my pony and bail-out tanks, now this...)
Dec 28, 2007, 5:17 pm
#17
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
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http://www.batterygeek.net/v/vspfile...FQHgPAodfgLYVg
If so, it's only 150 or 222 watt hours.
I think between the two of you, each with 25 grams aggregate allowed, you will be within the limit. My concern is the application/math of these new rules being a bit complicated for the average screener, they can't even figure out the fact that us Canadians buy everything in metric sizes, including 100 mL bottles and litre sized kippie baggies! I'd say get all your batteries' specs together, figure out how many Wh you have on hand for everything and keep it on hand. Just another thing to distract screening personnel from doing the job they're supposed to do.
Dec 28, 2007, 5:23 pm
#18
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 180
OMG I feel so much safer now
This just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Thank goodness the federal government is looking out for all our welfare.
First, we were saved from the indignity of x-raying briefcases with laptops inside (oh, and don't forget the highly paid TSA agents that were helpful enough to find all 6 extra nail clippers hiding in our briefcases). Next, we were saved from hiding our socks inside our shoes. Next, we were saved from lugging around 5oz bottles of shampoo -- and as a bonus, saved from hiding them in our baggage. At some point, lighters became taboo. Oops, no, no, no, only lighters that have been filled, souvenir Zippos are actually OK (how much lobbying $$$ did that take?).
Now, thank goodness, TSA will save us from lugging around lots of batteries. Much better to throw those things away. Goodness knows how many laptop batteries will NOT explode now!
Whew.
Thank goodness the federal government is looking out for all our welfare.
First, we were saved from the indignity of x-raying briefcases with laptops inside (oh, and don't forget the highly paid TSA agents that were helpful enough to find all 6 extra nail clippers hiding in our briefcases). Next, we were saved from hiding our socks inside our shoes. Next, we were saved from lugging around 5oz bottles of shampoo -- and as a bonus, saved from hiding them in our baggage. At some point, lighters became taboo. Oops, no, no, no, only lighters that have been filled, souvenir Zippos are actually OK (how much lobbying $$$ did that take?).
Now, thank goodness, TSA will save us from lugging around lots of batteries. Much better to throw those things away. Goodness knows how many laptop batteries will NOT explode now!
Whew.
Dec 28, 2007, 6:23 pm
#20
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now another question....if the tee-esss-ayyyy is so concerned with 2g li why don' they bother to allow a one litre kippy baggie and 3.40z of those dreaded ter'wrist liquids so to be in uniformity with the rest of the world that uses the metric system
. i'm soooo confused 
Dec 28, 2007, 6:35 pm
#21
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PDX/HND
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Posts: 554
i am a computer pro for a living. as my laptop is my office (travel a lot), it is a maxed out monster (dell xps 1710m), such a hog that the seat power is utterly incapable of supplying the 130w it sucks down. as i fly trans-pac and trans-atl a lot, i carry a battery pack (a battery geek 6000mAh/111Wh). from what i read, i am now sol. correct? and battery geek is gonna be out of business pretty soon.
Dec 28, 2007, 7:27 pm
#22
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Dec 28, 2007, 7:30 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
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No, Randy, I believe you aren't. You'll just have to carry it on. A pain and hassle, I know, but at least you can carry it on.
i am a computer pro for a living. as my laptop is my office (travel a lot), it is a maxed out monster (dell xps 1710m), such a hog that the seat power is utterly incapable of supplying the 130w it sucks down. as i fly trans-pac and trans-atl a lot, i carry a battery pack (a battery geek 6000mAh/111Wh). from what i read, i am now sol. correct? and battery geek is gonna be out of business pretty soon.
Dec 28, 2007, 7:31 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,725
Great.
Now every single time we pass through a checkpoint, we have to worry about a rogue screener confiscating our expensive and vital batteries. Or misclassifying our NiMH camera batteries as "lithium." Just what we need. And now I'll have to carry spec sheets, and more printed TSA regs, and be prepared for a fight with a screening manager over batteries, for every trip. Even if the rogue screener never materializes, the hassle is huge.
Read the chart at http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html
The chart is so complicated that it took me several minutes to figure out through the convoluted logic that my cell phone with installed + spare battery plus camera with installed + spare battery plus laptop with installed extended-life plus spare normal-life is not prohibited. (The logic is that < 8-oz equiv batteries are not restricted at all, so the phone and camera are fine. The bigger batteries, which may or may not include the laptop batteries, are restrictied to 2.)
I have a PhD in electrical engineering. How many TSA screeners are going to take the time to understand these rules? How the hell am I going to explain total "Watt hours" among batteries ranging from ~4 to ~14 V to a high-school-educated screener who barely passed arithmetic? Why does TSA never think of this issue when making up their silly, complicated, and ill-specified rules?
My prediction: idiot screeners (and we know they are out there) will interpret the rules as "2 batteries allowed" which means you can carry your cell phone and laptop battery but no spares.
My suggestion: spread your batteries out within your carry-on items. Phone in the jacket pocket, spare laptop battery in laptop case, spare phone battery in rollaboard. Don't let the x-ray operator see more than 1 battery per bag.
I'm with the above poster. By mid January, we'll have stories of confiscated batteries and stories of fights and missed flights to keep batteries.
I hate TSA. I still maintain that the only true solution is to disband the entire agency and start over without any of the current leadership.
Now every single time we pass through a checkpoint, we have to worry about a rogue screener confiscating our expensive and vital batteries. Or misclassifying our NiMH camera batteries as "lithium." Just what we need. And now I'll have to carry spec sheets, and more printed TSA regs, and be prepared for a fight with a screening manager over batteries, for every trip. Even if the rogue screener never materializes, the hassle is huge.
Read the chart at http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html
The chart is so complicated that it took me several minutes to figure out through the convoluted logic that my cell phone with installed + spare battery plus camera with installed + spare battery plus laptop with installed extended-life plus spare normal-life is not prohibited. (The logic is that < 8-oz equiv batteries are not restricted at all, so the phone and camera are fine. The bigger batteries, which may or may not include the laptop batteries, are restrictied to 2.)
I have a PhD in electrical engineering. How many TSA screeners are going to take the time to understand these rules? How the hell am I going to explain total "Watt hours" among batteries ranging from ~4 to ~14 V to a high-school-educated screener who barely passed arithmetic? Why does TSA never think of this issue when making up their silly, complicated, and ill-specified rules?
My prediction: idiot screeners (and we know they are out there) will interpret the rules as "2 batteries allowed" which means you can carry your cell phone and laptop battery but no spares.
My suggestion: spread your batteries out within your carry-on items. Phone in the jacket pocket, spare laptop battery in laptop case, spare phone battery in rollaboard. Don't let the x-ray operator see more than 1 battery per bag.
I'm with the above poster. By mid January, we'll have stories of confiscated batteries and stories of fights and missed flights to keep batteries.
I hate TSA. I still maintain that the only true solution is to disband the entire agency and start over without any of the current leadership.
Dec 28, 2007, 7:56 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Spiff: Well the EPA does oversee/jurisdiction over illegal dumping and will love TSA to improperly dispose of the batteries; so they can hand down stiff fines for improper disposal as materials in those batteries are harmful to the enviroment. I know because a few hobby shops got fined in Dallas a few years back for throwing boxes of dead cells in the dumpster( Nicd, Nimh, Li-metal and they were prepaid for a battery recycler no less) and as a result because of the fines went out of business. one shop was report to be fined around $150K for less then 50 cells in one box.
Studenttf: Dont feel bad I already carry a notebook full of various documents to keep my stuff from being stolen or having duties wrongly forced on me. This will add another 1/8 inch to the book, just that the resulting stupidity is what will be hard to deal with in addition to what is normally dished out. Dont bother trying to teach the TSO with a GED about that because all you will get is a deer in headlights look and you will end up with a migrane and requesting for a complaint form.
Studenttf: Dont feel bad I already carry a notebook full of various documents to keep my stuff from being stolen or having duties wrongly forced on me. This will add another 1/8 inch to the book, just that the resulting stupidity is what will be hard to deal with in addition to what is normally dished out. Dont bother trying to teach the TSO with a GED about that because all you will get is a deer in headlights look and you will end up with a migrane and requesting for a complaint form.
Dec 28, 2007, 7:57 pm
#26
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I'm with the above poster. By mid January, we'll have stories of confiscated batteries and stories of fights and missed flights to keep batteries.
Dec 28, 2007, 8:20 pm
#27
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
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i am a computer pro for a living. as my laptop is my office (travel a lot), it is a maxed out monster (dell xps 1710m), such a hog that the seat power is utterly incapable of supplying the 130w it sucks down. as i fly trans-pac and trans-atl a lot, i carry a battery pack (a battery geek 6000mAh/111Wh). from what i read, i am now sol. correct? and battery geek is gonna be out of business pretty soon.
Dec 28, 2007, 8:41 pm
#28
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So does this mean my 4-pack of AA Lithium batteries (spares for digital camera & GPS) is banned if my suitcase gets checked?
And what protects the plane from incinerating if the "carryon" ends up gated check in the same RJ baggage hold as checked luggage? Will the children ever forgive us?
*#*&*($& retards!
And what protects the plane from incinerating if the "carryon" ends up gated check in the same RJ baggage hold as checked luggage? Will the children ever forgive us?
*#*&*($& retards!
Dec 28, 2007, 10:42 pm
#30
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 Sprint:MotoQ (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 176x220))
Wow, this is going to be a total fiasco frm just about every aspect. And a lot worse than the liquid ban - it's easy enough to recover from wrongly having your toothpaste thrown away. Not so easy to recover from having your laptop battery get thrown away - good luck finding a replacement on your trip.
And who put together that complicated DOT chart? Good luck with the TSA trying to decode that at the checkpoint
Wow, this is going to be a total fiasco frm just about every aspect. And a lot worse than the liquid ban - it's easy enough to recover from wrongly having your toothpaste thrown away. Not so easy to recover from having your laptop battery get thrown away - good luck finding a replacement on your trip.
And who put together that complicated DOT chart? Good luck with the TSA trying to decode that at the checkpoint