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Court Orders British Suspect Freed (in the alleged 'liquid explosives plot')

Court Orders British Suspect Freed (in the alleged 'liquid explosives plot')

Old Nov 15, 07, 2:46 pm
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Court Orders British Suspect Freed (in the alleged 'liquid explosives plot')

If memory serves, wasn't this the 'really bad guy' behind the alleged plot? You'll note that Britian isn't even trying to extradite him for the 'liquid explosives' plot, either-it's a completely unrelated investigation from 2002.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...h-Suspect.html

Can I have my shampoo & toothpaste back now, please??
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Old Nov 15, 07, 3:18 pm
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Who wants to wager whether or not this chap will end up on that disaster of a No-Fly list?
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Old Nov 15, 07, 4:57 pm
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Originally Posted by jello2594 View Post
Who wants to wager whether or not this chap will end up on that disaster of a No-Fly list?
Of course he won't. By the TSA's logic that would reveal that they're on to him. Only people that are not real terror threats (i.e. dead, in jail, non-terrorist, etc.) get on the list.
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Old Nov 15, 07, 5:25 pm
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Originally Posted by txrus View Post
If memory serves, wasn't this the 'really bad guy' behind the alleged plot? You'll note that Britian isn't even trying to extradite him for the 'liquid explosives' plot, either-it's a completely unrelated investigation from 2002.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...h-Suspect.html

Can I have my shampoo & toothpaste back now, please??
There are hundreds of innocent kids just like this guy who are being held by the Govt under the current state of hysteria. These guys need to be set free, receive official apologies and those responsible for their arrest need to be prosecuted and brought to account. If the govt is unwilling to do this, I'm sure someone with a sense of fairness will take the initiative in this regard and ensure some form of justice is served.
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Old Nov 15, 07, 7:14 pm
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Uh, let's not all jump to conclusions here based on few facts.

First, we don't know why the Pakistanis decided to drop the case.

Second, that Britain asked for his extradition in connection with a 2002 murder plot is not evidence that the liquid bombing plot was fake.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...h-Suspect.html
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Old Nov 15, 07, 7:31 pm
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Whether the bombing plot was real or not (who knows), the real issue is whether or not it was realistic. More than sufficient evidence exists from almost all scientific sources without a right-wing political agenda to promote, that the alleged plot was simply impossible to pull off as advertised.

Whether or not they are guilty of conspiracy is for a court of law to decide - but whether our liquids and toothpaste should continue being restricted is a matter of fact - they should not be.

There is still NOTHING to prevent someone from pre-mixing an explosive chemical compound and filling multiple 3.4oz containers with it, then combining them onboard for detonation. There is also NOTHING to prevent someone from forming a plastic explosive into the shape of any common item, like the sole of a shoe, and running it through the x-ray belt in their carry-on without it being detected.

NO risk has been mitigated by the liquid ban - in fact, the TSA continues to demonstrate that we are as equally at risk from explosive or chemical attack now than we were before the agency were created.
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Old Nov 15, 07, 8:36 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Whether the bombing plot was real or not (who knows), the real issue is whether or not it was realistic. More than sufficient evidence exists from almost all scientific sources without a right-wing political agenda to promote, that the alleged plot was simply impossible to pull off as advertised.

Whether or not they are guilty of conspiracy is for a court of law to decide - but whether our liquids and toothpaste should continue being restricted is a matter of fact - they should not be.

There is still NOTHING to prevent someone from pre-mixing an explosive chemical compound and filling multiple 3.4oz containers with it, then combining them onboard for detonation. There is also NOTHING to prevent someone from forming a plastic explosive into the shape of any common item, like the sole of a shoe, and running it through the x-ray belt in their carry-on without it being detected.

NO risk has been mitigated by the liquid ban - in fact, the TSA continues to demonstrate that we are as equally at risk from explosive or chemical attack now than we were before the agency were created.
Correct. Despite the available technology to detect explosives. Which, for some Bizarro-world reason, TSA refuses to deploy.
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Old Nov 15, 07, 9:05 pm
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Despite the available technology to detect explosives. Which, for some Bizarro-world reason, TSA refuses to deploy.
You've never walked through the new sniffer screening device, have you?
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Old Nov 15, 07, 10:26 pm
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Originally Posted by ExitRowOrElse View Post
You've never walked through the new sniffer screening device, have you?
New sniffer? Those are old machines - been around for a couple years, and most of them aren't being used anymore. They do not detect liquid explosives.

I've written here multiple times about a device, not expensive, which is able to scan the contents of liquid containers without sample prep for the presence of chemicals - that device is no where to be found. Similar devices have been in use in Japan for a long time.

We still have nothing but security theater - and it's only by a wing and a prayer we've avoided disaster and mayhem so far.
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Old Nov 16, 07, 8:27 am
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
New sniffer? Those are old machines - been around for a couple years, and most of them aren't being used anymore. They do not detect liquid explosives.
...
We still have nothing but security theater - and it's only by a wing and a prayer we've avoided disaster and mayhem so far.
There are so few of the sniffers that it's very easy to avoid them. For example, at DCA, you can avoid the sniffer if you avoid the right-most line at the NW/YX terminal. That line, incidentally, is the line that's often designated for elites.
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Old Nov 16, 07, 10:17 am
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Originally Posted by ExitRowOrElse View Post
You've never walked through the new sniffer screening device, have you?
Wrong! There is one at my home airport I walked through for almost two years. The past three months it has been encased in shrink-wrap. Go figure.
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Old Nov 16, 07, 1:21 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Whether the bombing plot was real or not (who knows), the real issue is whether or not it was realistic. More than sufficient evidence exists from almost all scientific sources without a right-wing political agenda to promote, that the alleged plot was simply impossible to pull off as advertised.

Whether or not they are guilty of conspiracy is for a court of law to decide - but whether our liquids and toothpaste should continue being restricted is a matter of fact - they should not be.

There is still NOTHING to prevent someone from pre-mixing an explosive chemical compound and filling multiple 3.4oz containers with it, then combining them onboard for detonation. There is also NOTHING to prevent someone from forming a plastic explosive into the shape of any common item, like the sole of a shoe, and running it through the x-ray belt in their carry-on without it being detected.

NO risk has been mitigated by the liquid ban - in fact, the TSA continues to demonstrate that we are as equally at risk from explosive or chemical attack now than we were before the agency were created.
Yes, but none of this has anything to do with the article in the OP - that was my point.
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Old Nov 16, 07, 4:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Doppy View Post
Second, that Britain asked for his extradition in connection with a 2002 murder plot is not evidence that the liquid bombing plot was fake.
No, we know the liquid bombing plot was a fake from basic principles of chemistry.
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Old Nov 16, 07, 6:37 pm
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No, we know the liquid bombing plot was a fake from basic principles of chemistry.
Are you aware of the principle of hypergolic chemicals? Put nitrogen tetroxide and unsymmetrical dimethyl hydrazine together and see what happens.


Last edited by ExitRowOrElse; Nov 16, 07 at 9:04 pm
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Old Nov 16, 07, 8:33 pm
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Originally Posted by ExitRowOrElse View Post
Are you principle of hypergolic chemicals? Put nitrogen tetroxide and unsymmetrical dimethyl hydrazine together and see what happens.

Neither one of those fit the definition of being undetectable before boarding the flight.

It is important to keep the various scenarios clear. Lots of liquids (and solids) can go boom.

It was this specific plot that turned out to be a fake. Specifically, TATP synthesis in an aircraft loo.
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